Bill Russell shouldn't be on anyone's top 10 list.

[broncosmitty]

I like him a lot more than most on this Forum.


But I don't like those pants.

 

[Bart]

Historically its always a difficult task to rank the greatest of all-time,

Mine would be:

1) Wilt Chamberlain
2) Kareem Jabbar
3) Hakeem Olajuwon
4) Shaquille O’Neal
5) Bill Russell

Maybe the next five:

6) Moses Malone
7) David Robinson
8) Wes Unseld
9) Artis Gilmore
10) Willis Reed

The game today has changed so much from the way it used to be played and forever will be.

I would replace Russell with Robinson at the 5 spot, he had a vastly better offensive game and a comparable defensive game.

 

[BostonBlackie]

Great post, very sensible and realistic take on Russell.

Just curious, where would you rank Bird on a list of forwards?

 

[Bart]

Just curious, where would you rank Bird on a list of forwards?

#2 or #3. Depending if you are talking both power forwards and small forwards.

 

[BostonBlackie]

#2 or #3. Depending if you are talking both power forwards and small forwards.

Just trying to ascertain whether or not your opinion of Russell was an LA vs Boston thing. Apparently not.

 

[wildturkey]

Lol at one of the newcomer's here unknowingly bringing up one of this forum's historically debate-y topics. Been awhile since I've seen it though. Who was that would get legitimately pissed off about Bill Russell being rated so highly? Was it Hammer? All I can remember is LOLing when everyone just started trolling with "Did you know Bill Russell has 11 rings?" quotes

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

I would replace Russell with Robinson at the 5 spot, he had a vastly better offensive game and a comparable defensive game.

But Robinson wasn’t better than “Big Mo” Moses Malone.

 

[thunderc]

Congrats on bringing attention yourself, and confirming some things. This is all your post deserves.

 

[Sparhawk]

Sixers fan, Celtics hater, yada yada yada.

That being said, I have to put Wilt and Russell on the same level.

Wilt was the better individual player and piled up the stats, but all Russell did was win championships. Regardless of whether or not he always had a better team than Wilt, Russell did what he had to do to win rings, even if that meant sacrificing stats. Perhaps he always had the better team around him because he made the players around him better and there are anecdotal stories on how he knew how to push the buttons on certain players to elevate their games.

Maybe the reason those 'other' guys are HOFs is because of Russell....

 

[shopson67]

#2 or #3. Depending if you are talking both power forwards and small forwards.

You would rank Duncan over Bird?

 

[shopson67]

Sixers fan, Celtics hater, yada yada yada.

That being said, I have to put Wilt and Russell on the same level.

Wilt was the better individual player and piled up the stats, but all Russell did was win championships. Regardless of whether or not he always had a better team than Wilt, Russell did what he had to do to win rings, even if that meant sacrificing stats. Perhaps he always had the better team around him because he made the players around him better and there are anecdotal stories on how he knew how to push the buttons on certain players to elevate their games.

Maybe the reason those 'other' guys are HOFs is because of Russell....

Championships are a team accomplishment, especially when you are talking about that HOF-loaded 60's Celtics squad. Wilt is BY FAR the more dominant player.

 

[Sparhawk]

Championships are a team accomplishment, especially when you are talking about that HOF-loaded 60's Celtics squad. Wilt is BY FAR the more dominant player.

Statistically, absolutely Wilt is the more dominant player. I acknowledged that.

Think about this :
How many chips did the C's win before Russell? After Russell?
He won 11 in 13 seasons.
He even won 2/3 as a player-coach.
For some folks, those statistics are as valuable as any pointz or rebounding numbers. Or women that he slept with. Okay, maybe not that one, but you get the idea.....

 

[Bart]

You would rank Duncan over Bird?

Possibly, I would have to give it some thought.

 

[shopson67]

Statistically, absolutely Wilt is the more dominant player. I acknowledged that.

Think about this :
How many chips did the C's win before Russell? After Russell?
He won 11 in 13 seasons.
He even won 2/3 as a player-coach.
For some folks, those statistics are as valuable as any pointz or rebounding numbers. Or women that he slept with. Okay, maybe not that one, but you get the idea.....

Look at the rosters he played with. The champion 60's Celtics were ridiculously loaded.

 

[desert heat]

Seriously. The guy played against midgets and failed to dominate offensively. If I played against a bunch of elementary school kids, I could dominate both offensively and defensively. I think fans should apply some reasoning before compiling their top 10 list, it would ensure some legitimacy to these lists instead of being the mockery they have become by including Russell. I’d don’t want to see any dissenting views in this thread either because it would be damn embarrassment to this board for any poster to endorse Russell as a top 10 player.

top ten lists are always subjective, but the idea that players in the 60's played against inferior talent or midgets is a myth that has been debunked. the league was much smaller, consisting of only 10-12 teams, and less watered down that today's 30 team league. the best played against the best much more often. bill russell was a 6'10" world class high jumper. don't underestimate him.

some cenetres from that era.

wilt, of course

Walter Dukes (7'0", 220 lbs.)
Swede Halbrook (7'3, 235 lbs.)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0", 265 lbs.)
Bob Lanier (6'11", 265 lbs.)
Darrall Imhoff (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Otto Moore (6'11", 210 lbs.)
Sam Lacey (6'10", 235 lbs.)
George Johnson (6'11", 245 lbs.)
Paul Ruffner (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Dick Cunningham (6'10", 245 lbs.)
Walt Bellamy (6'11", 225 lbs.)
Leroy Ellis (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Nate Thurmond (6'11", 235 lbs.)
Mel Counts (7'0", 235 lbs.)
Nate Bowman (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Clyde Lee (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Walt Wesley (6'11", 230 lbs.)
Henry Akin (6'10", 225 lbs.)
Hank Finkel (7'0", 240 lbs.)
Neal Walk (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Elmore Smith (7'0", 250 lbs.)
Jim McDaniels (6'11", 230 lbs.)
LaRue Martin (6'11", 215 lbs.)
Tom Riker (6'10", 225 lbs.)
Conrad Dierking (6'9", 225 lbs.)
Johnny “Red” Kerr (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Bob Pettit (6'9", 220 lbs.)
Spencer Haywood (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Rick Roberson (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Luke Jackson (6'9", 240 lbs.)
Duke Hogue (6'9," 240 lbs.)
Zelmo Beaty (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Len Chappell (6'9", 240 lbs.)
Hub Reed (6'9", 220 lbs.)

 

[tnapucco]

holy shit this fetid thread has gone for 3 pages?

 

[shopson67]

top ten lists are always subjective, but the idea that players in the 60's played against inferior talent or midgets is a myth that has been debunked. the league was much smaller, consisting of only 10-12 teams, and less watered down that today's 30 team league. the best played against the best much more often. bill russell was a 6'10" world class high jumper. don't underestimate him.

some cenetres from that era.

wilt, of course

Walter Dukes (7'0", 220 lbs.)
Swede Halbrook (7'3, 235 lbs.)
Tom Boerwinkle (7'0", 265 lbs.)
Bob Lanier (6'11", 265 lbs.)
Darrall Imhoff (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Otto Moore (6'11", 210 lbs.)
Sam Lacey (6'10", 235 lbs.)
George Johnson (6'11", 245 lbs.)
Paul Ruffner (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Dick Cunningham (6'10", 245 lbs.)
Walt Bellamy (6'11", 225 lbs.)
Leroy Ellis (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Nate Thurmond (6'11", 235 lbs.)
Mel Counts (7'0", 235 lbs.)
Nate Bowman (6'10", 230 lbs.)
Clyde Lee (6'10", 210 lbs.)
Walt Wesley (6'11", 230 lbs.)
Henry Akin (6'10", 225 lbs.)
Hank Finkel (7'0", 240 lbs.)
Neal Walk (6'10", 220 lbs.)
Elmore Smith (7'0", 250 lbs.)
Jim McDaniels (6'11", 230 lbs.)
LaRue Martin (6'11", 215 lbs.)
Tom Riker (6'10", 225 lbs.)
Conrad Dierking (6'9", 225 lbs.)
Johnny “Red” Kerr (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Bob Pettit (6'9", 220 lbs.)
Spencer Haywood (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Rick Roberson (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Luke Jackson (6'9", 240 lbs.)
Duke Hogue (6'9," 240 lbs.)
Zelmo Beaty (6'9", 230 lbs.)
Len Chappell (6'9", 240 lbs.)
Hub Reed (6'9", 220 lbs.)

...and I recognize maybe 5 names from that list.

 

[Sparhawk]

holy shit this fetid thread has gone for 3 pages?

OP was so misinformed I thought this was on the Politics forum.....

 

[desert heat]

...and I recognize maybe 5 names from that list.

are you a basketball fan? there's at least 5 hofers on that list?

 

[shopson67]

are you a basketball fan? there's at least 5 hofers on that list?

Those are the ones I recognize.