Bigger fuck up: Losing Barry or losing Suh?

[TrustMeIamRight]

The Lions have been blessed with 3 true superstars. 3 guys who will forever be in the top 3 all-time at their position debates. Barry, Megatron, and Suh.

I'm already on record saying Suh is my favorite player on the Lions and I would hate to lose him. That being said -- Saying Suh will forever be in the top 3 all-time for DT debates is a little much. He isn't even the hands down best DT in the NFL RIGHT NOW. Every publication and listing I've seen for the top 100 players in the NFL for the upcoming season has Gerald McCoy ranked ahead of Suh. If Atkins didn't miss half a season in 2013 -- I'd wager he would be ahead of Suh too.

Suh is a great player, but calling him an all-time anything right now is overvaluing him. Maybe that is why Suh is asking for a ridiculous amount of money, because that type of stuff is filling up his head from our fan base.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

He more than makes up for penalty yards with his play, but its always going to be a factor

.

I'm not 100% sure on this, as I'm going off what I heard during a Lions broadcast, but they made the comment that in Suh's last full season worth of games (16 games between two years) -- he was penalized the least of all the DL on the Lions that play regularly.

So Suh has definitely toned down his dumb penalties from his first few years.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Suh is talented enough to become a HOFer. He is physically gifted without question. But for all the amazing talent any team that signs him, Lions included, has to factor in risk. I am of the impression that much of the attention, penalties and fines he has recieved has been unwarranted. He got the dirty label early and magnified it with the stomp and now hes stuck with it. He more than makes up for penalty yards with his play, but its always going to be a factor.

Albert Haynesworth was the last great DT (until he got paid big money) I've seen in the last decade plus so Suh is definitely HOF material.

I'm not sure of his contract demands, but I would be leery of breaking the bank with this guy.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Bigger fuck up: Losing Barry or losing Suh?

IMO -- if Suh leaves - it will be because Suh didn't want to play in Detroit anymore. Just because a fan base loves a player doesn't mean the player has to stay. It isn't like the NBA, where the team that drafted you can offer you more years or more money. It isn't like baseball, where there is no salary cap and you can overpay players, like the Yankees do quite often.

Suh can walk and get whatever deal the open market offers him. Personally -- I think Suh is heading to a major market team or to a team closer to his hometown.

Suh is a great player, but it isn't as if Detroit has set the world on fire with him on the team. As a matter of fact -- the last two years, we've had top 10 picks in the draft, including one year with a top 5 pick. It isn't as if the team is going to fold if Detroit doesn't overpay Suh.

 

[broncosmitty]

Suh. Barry retired, Lions made the playoffs with James Stewart anyway. And Charlie Fucking Batch!

 

[RobBase]

Every publication and listing I've seen for the top 100 players in the NFL for the upcoming season has Gerald McCoy ranked ahead of Suh. If Atkins didn't miss half a season in 2013 -- I'd wager he would be ahead of Suh too.

I don't give a crap about what those copy cat nerds write. Gerald McCoy isn't even on the same planet as Suh. Suh will get a bigger contract than McCoy, 100% guaranteed, because he is the superior player. Part of his hold out obviously has something to do with waiting to see what McCoy gets first.

Suh is better than Akins too. Akins gets more sacks because the rest of the Bengals D can actually cover people for more than 1 second, giving Geno more time to get to the QB. Suh is lucky to get his hands on an O-lineman before watching the opposing QB riffle passes over his head to wide open WR's. But Suh is the overall better DT. He'll always make more than Atkins too because of it.

 

[Wazmankg]

You didn't lose Barry he quit!

I voted losing Suh...

and if we lose Suh it will be because he doesn't want to play here. I don't understand the difference. Barry did not have the option of playing somewhere else so he retired. He put in 10 great years which is complete career for most RBs. They can fill a lot of holes with what they would save losing Suh.

Barry.

 

[tpaulus_2]

If the Lions don't pay Suh what he wants, and he ends up leaving, the screw-up will have been not trading him before the draft. He clearly had no interest in signing this off-season.

Yep. If he was leaving anyways we could have got a 1st rounder at the very least, or perhaps a talented young CB...

 

[tpaulus_2]

IMO -- if Suh leaves - it will be because Suh didn't want to play in Detroit anymore. Just because a fan base loves a player doesn't mean the player has to stay. It isn't like the NBA, where the team that drafted you can offer you more years or more money. It isn't like baseball, where there is no salary cap and you can overpay players, like the Yankees do quite often.

Suh can walk and get whatever deal the open market offers him. Personally -- I think Suh is heading to a major market team or to a team closer to his hometown.

Suh is a great player, but it isn't as if Detroit has set the world on fire with him on the team. As a matter of fact -- the last two years, we've had top 10 picks in the draft, including one year with a top 5 pick. It isn't as if the team is going to fold if Detroit doesn't overpay Suh.

Did you fall and hit your head recently?

We're in complete agreement on the Suh debacle, and it kind of makes me nervous...

 

[tpaulus_2]

What pisses me off about Suh the most is just the kind of guy he appears to be- a self-absorbed dick.

There's nothing wring with him wanting to cash in and push his brand into a bigger market, but it still sucks for us to have to lose him because of it.

He's incredibly talented and is an absolute asset on the field, I just wish he was a better person as well. I'm not saying he's a horrible person, or anything like that, but I think it's pretty obvious that he's a total asshole on a personal level.

I just wish he was one of those "all heart" guys who wants to put the defense on his back and win against all odds, but that's just the fan in me. Realistically we're talking about a difference of tens of millions of dollars in endorsement $$ if he gets to a NY, Texas, or Cali market, so it's hard to fault him there.

Just have to separate the two brains on this one- my Lions fan brain is going to turn on him in a hot second as soon as he's a former Lion, but my realistic brain understands that he's looking at a substantial financial difference going elsewhere.

 

[broncosmitty]

I hate Mayhew, don't have anything against Suh. Dude brings it 100% during games. Barry never even bothered to come to camp. That didn't bother me either.

Only defensive draft pick Mayhew has bothered to resign is Levy. This mess isn't Suhs fault.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What pisses me off about Suh the most is just the kind of guy he appears to be- a self-absorbed dick.

There's nothing wring with him wanting to cash in and push his brand into a bigger market, but it still sucks for us to have to lose him because of it.

He's incredibly talented and is an absolute asset on the field, I just wish he was a better person as well. I'm not saying he's a horrible person, or anything like that, but I think it's pretty obvious that he's a total asshole on a personal level.

I just wish he was one of those "all heart" guys who wants to put the defense on his back and win against all odds, but that's just the fan in me. Realistically we're talking about a difference of tens of millions of dollars in endorsement $$ if he gets to a NY, Texas, or Cali market, so it's hard to fault him there.

Just have to separate the two brains on this one- my Lions fan brain is going to turn on him in a hot second as soon as he's a former Lion, but my realistic brain understands that he's looking at a substantial financial difference going elsewhere.

I look at it this way...Suh is in the prime of his career right now...clearly the best DT in the game, yet the Lions still didn't make the playoffs...so not so much him, but is his position a true difference maker. If he were a DE getting 15 - 20 sacks a year, maybe the impact is greater...love the player, but I wouldn't pay him a king's ransom.

 

[Flambo Gus]

I call bullshit on Suh being a top 3 all time in his position.


He's good, hell, even great on a good day, and a nonfactor in many others.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I call bullshit on Suh being a top 3 all time in his position.


He's good, hell, even great on a good day, and a nonfactor in many others.

I'm not sure Suh has ever been a non-factor in any single game he's played in.

It's not like he's inconsistent, or disappears during games- he's the focal point for the opposing offense pretty much every snap.

Perhaps your post was just subconscious deflection since the Packers don't currently have anyone on their defense anywhere near Suh's level?

 

[Flambo Gus]

I'm not sure Suh has ever been a non-factor in any single game he's played in.

It's not like he's inconsistent, or disappears during games- he's the focal point for the opposing offense pretty much every snap.

Perhaps your post was just subconscious deflection since the Packers don't currently have anyone on their defense anywhere near Suh's level?

Yeah that its, because all Packers fans are so jealous of the Lions tremendous ability to procure and develop talent.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Struck a nerve there- must mean I was right.

I like the roundabout answer, too. You didn't even try to deny that the Packer's defense lacks anyone on Suh's level...

 

[Flambo Gus]

Struck a nerve there- must mean I was right.

I like the roundabout answer, too. You didn't even try to deny that the Packer's defense lacks anyone on Suh's level...

And what has all that talent Suh has done for the Lions?

 

[Yankees Fan]

And what has all that talent Suh has done for the Lions?

So jealous.

 

[Flambo Gus]

Struck a nerve there- must mean I was right.

I like the roundabout answer, too. You didn't even try to deny that the Packer's defense lacks anyone on Suh's level...

No, it was a dismissive answer to your assumption that jealousy played any part of my reply.

The Lions are a nonfactor on a yearly basis to the point that I don't even consider them a rival to the Packers. The Bears, yeah, fuck them. The Vikings? yeah, fuck them too.

The Lions? M'eh, nonconsequential dicktards that will choke regardless.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

the Packers don't currently have anyone on their defense anywhere near Suh's level?

Doesn't Clay Matthews play on the Packers?