Bigger fuck up: Losing Barry or losing Suh?

[RobBase]

The Lions have been blessed with 3 true superstars. 3 guys who will forever be in the top 3 all-time at their position debates. Barry, Megatron, and Suh.

Thanks to a miracle 10-6 season saved mostly by Calvin playing 500 with Stafford all year, the Lions convinced Megatron to stay in town.

But they failed to surround Barry with tools needed to make that next step, and now Lions history is repeating itself with Suh.

But which fuck up is worse?

Losing Barry jump started a decade of diarrhea that ended with the most embarrassing season ever (0-16). But, Barry had been in the league 9 years. Suh is just getting warmed up.

The only silver lining here is that Martin Mayhew and Tom Lewand's days are numbered. Fans who get behind them now are just setting themselves up for failure and disappointment.

My vote goes to Suh because this organization clearly has not learned from their mistakes. That tells me the next time they go 1-15 or 0-16 and land an elite talent, they'll fuck that up too.

 

[Old Lion]

Barry. He left because they were not serious about building a winner.

Suh is just a business decision. No DT in the history of football is worth what Suh is looking for. And there probably never will be one.

 

[Kreton]

I agree with Old Lion. Suh is asking too much. If he walks, he walks. He either wants to be here or he doesn't. If he doesn't then let him go. Use the 20 mil in other ways.

 

[Nosferatu]

You didn't lose Barry he quit!

I voted losing Suh...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Barry. He left because they were not serious about building a winner.

Suh is just a business decision. No DT in the history of football is worth what Suh is looking for. And there probably never will be one.

That's an interesting thought, converting to a 3-4.

Suh's talents would be wasted in a 3-4 based scheme.

I'm all about keeping Suh- he's supremely talented, but I think he's going to demand way above market level to stay in the D. I think he's been planning to hit free agency for a few years now, based on those tweets his sister/manager sent out last offseason...

Blame the front office all you want, but if the dude don't want to sign, Mayhew can't force him to. We could keep him on the franchise tag for $26 million- that'd be great business...

 

[iowajerms]

The front office messed up with Barry way more than Suh.

1) Barry didn't waste his money - How much money has Suh had to give up with fines? Although I agree that the league can hand out fines and suspensions for tackles that don't deserve it, but Ndamukong Suh makes it easy for them. Did Barry even do anything that would give him a fine?

2) Barry led the team to the playoffs, on a team that shouldn't have. Suh is on a team that should make it every year, but doesn't - The front office gave Barry nothing during his tenure. By the time Barry retired, he should have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. They could have gotten a decent defense. Barry made playoffs one year, but that was probably because of luck. Suh has been given a team that is good. There is no reason they shouldn't compete with the Packers and make playoffs.

3) Barry is among the best in NFL history at his position. Suh, so far, cannot say the same thing - I am not saying Suh is bad, he's just not in the same argument as defensive lineman as Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, and players at that level. Barry Sanders are in the same discussion as Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith (maybe higher than Smith), and players like that.

Barry Sanders gave the Lions way more than the Lions ever gave him. IMO, Suh is no where near the level to compare.

 

[jayfan]

Barry, first and foremost, was pissed that the team let Kevin Glover go. But he didn't say anything. He never did, wasn't his style. But if only he had gone to the front office in this case, and requested/demanded Glover be retained, the retirement likely would not have happened.

 

[Naughtymax]

Suh because he has at least 5 great years left. Barry was near the RB wall when he quit.

 

[gandydancer]

Suh because he has at least 5 great years left. Barry was near the RB wall when he quit.

I voted Barry...

You do bring a different perspective to the topic.

As I said in different thread. Suh leaves on his own was not willing to sign a contract that was within means and asking for QB money. I can not fault the Lions for screwing up when he chose to leave.

 

[Microwahevo]

Barry made playoffs one year, but that was probably because of luck.

Wrong. He helped lead the Lions to the playoffs 5 times, 91, 93, 94, 95, and 97.

 

[RobBase]

Wrong. He helped lead the Lions to the playoffs 5 times, 91, 93, 94, 95, and 97, SON!

He prob meant won one playoff game. But I almost replied the same thing.

 

[Naughtymax]

I voted Barry...

You do bring a different perspective to the topic.

As I said in different thread. Suh leaves on his own was not willing to sign a contract that was within means and asking for QB money. I can not fault the Lions for screwing up when he chose to leave.

I can fault management for failing to build a winner around a team with enough talent to win, and for failing to sell Suh on the benefits of staying. The difference between a good salesperson and an oxygen converter is not necessarily having the best product or offer - it's convincing the customer that you have the best product or offer.

 

[jayfan]

If the Lions don't pay Suh what he wants, and he ends up leaving, the screw-up will have been not trading him before the draft. He clearly had no interest in signing this off-season.

 

[RobBase]

I can fault management for failing to build a winner around a team with enough talent to win, and for failing to sell Suh on the benefits of staying. The difference between a good salesperson and an oxygen converter is not necessarily having the best product or offer - it's convincing the customer that you have the best product or offer.

Drunk Tom has certainly tried.

"I think this will be one of the most, if not the single most, attractive head coaching openings in the National Football League for a lot of different reasons," Lions president Tom Lewand said Monday. "I can verify that by the number of calls we have already gotten since the announcement was made at noon today...from no one. I'm so wasted."

Suh is just too smart to buy his bullshit.

 

[iowajerms]

He prob meant won one playoff game. But I almost replied the same thing.

Yeah, that is what I meant.

 

[iowajerms]

Barry was getting screwed by the Lions pretty much his entire career. I really don't see how Suh is getting screwed.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

The Lions really not real smart in Handling the Sanders issue. They could have got some really high picks for him and refused to trade him. By punishing Sanders they hurt their chances of winning

 

[ATL96Steeler]

From An Outsider Perspective

Losing Sanders was a much bigger loss.

If Suh doesn't play another down...which he will of course, but is he a lock HOFer today? Definitely top 3 DT today...alltime? I have to give it more thought...career would be too short for the HOF right now imo.

 

[Kreton]

The front office messed up with Barry way more than Suh.

1) Barry didn't waste his money - How much money has Suh had to give up with fines? Although I agree that the league can hand out fines and suspensions for tackles that don't deserve it, but Ndamukong Suh makes it easy for them. Did Barry even do anything that would give him a fine?

2) Barry led the team to the playoffs, on a team that shouldn't have. Suh is on a team that should make it every year, but doesn't - The front office gave Barry nothing during his tenure. By the time Barry retired, he should have had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. They could have gotten a decent defense. Barry made playoffs one year, but that was probably because of luck. Suh has been given a team that is good. There is no reason they shouldn't compete with the Packers and make playoffs.

3) Barry is among the best in NFL history at his position. Suh, so far, cannot say the same thing - I am not saying Suh is bad, he's just not in the same argument as defensive lineman as Bruce Smith, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, and players at that level. Barry Sanders are in the same discussion as Walter Payton, Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith (maybe higher than Smith), and players like that.

Barry Sanders gave the Lions way more than the Lions ever gave him. IMO, Suh is no where near the level to compare.

Great post

 

[Kreton]

Losing Sanders was a much bigger loss.

If Suh doesn't play another down...which he will of course, but is he a lock HOFer today? Definitely top 3 DT today...alltime? I have to give it more thought...career would be too short for the HOF right now imo.

Suh is talented enough to become a HOFer. He is physically gifted without question. But for all the amazing talent any team that signs him, Lions included, has to factor in risk. I am of the impression that much of the attention, penalties and fines he has recieved has been unwarranted. He got the dirty label early and magnified it with the stomp and now hes stuck with it. He more than makes up for penalty yards with his play, but its always going to be a factor.