Series Thread: Big series in the West against Mariners here 8/29-8/31

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

When the magic number is 0, then I'll be comfortable with resting people on a regular basis.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

I'm starting to wonder if it's the pieces or when they're being used. I was following the game over on Reddit and several people wondered A) why Yu was left in as long as he was (pitch count) and B) why Barnette wasn't brought in over Diekman.

I said something last night about this when it happened. I wanted to keep Seth Smith at the plate as he is cold right now. By bringing in a LHer they were able to bring in a RH hitter. They really dropped the ball on that one. They had 3 RHers on the bench. Keep them there in that situation.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

I guess I totally missed on everything about last nights game as far as pitching was concerned.

First, I thought the starting match-up of Yu and Iwakuma was an excellent one, and that certainly didn't come about. Second, I was concerned about Dyson/Kela and they were both good, while Diekman didn't do well.

You could tell Iwakuma was off. After Maz struck out swinging at pitches all over the place Desmond, Beltran and Beltre all hit rockets with 2 being right at someone and the other out of the park. I felt like we would get to him as he was leaving the ball up.

 

[DT LUNA]

Barnette should have relieved Yu. Diek was wasted when he came in and we ended up using three relievers with a nice lead. IMO Barnette would have been the better choice and Diek would have rested another day. Not handled well.

 

[jaar01]

The bullpen has been struggling. They are not nearly as "lights out" that I think we believed they would be when Kela came back and Jeffress was acquired. And I think (in addition to too many walks) it may have something to do with Banister and the choices or "sequencing" he uses with the bullpen.

I think guys get used to their roles and then begin to thrive with them. There is no doubt we have a good mix of junkballers and power arms in the pen. But other than Dyson being the closer, no other pitcher has really been slotted into a "role". Out of Barnette, Bush, Kela, Diekman, Jeffress, and even Claudio it seems from one game to the next we could see anyone of them. I am not saying we have to go the route of traditional "roles" all the time. But I look at what the Giants, Cardinals, and Royals have done in recent years (all WS champions) and they have generally had pretty scripted 7th, 8th, and 9th inning guys with usually a junkballing lefty still available for that one left handed power hitter.

It is nice to have so many options, but is it possible we have too many options, and guys can't get comfortable with their roles or routines. Just a thought.

 

[fordman84]

I was thinking that last night about getting a double digit lead and then giving multiple guys a week or more off at a time. Don't know if they'll DL them or just rest em and make some Sept call ups

Doh. Yeah I forgot about September expansion. No need for DL.

 

[romeo212000]

The bullpen has been struggling. They are not nearly as "lights out" that I think we believed they would be when Kela came back and Jeffress was acquired. And I think (in addition to too many walks) it may have something to do with Banister and the choices or "sequencing" he uses with the bullpen.

I think guys get used to their roles and then begin to thrive with them. There is no doubt we have a good mix of junkballers and power arms in the pen. But other than Dyson being the closer, no other pitcher has really been slotted into a "role". Out of Barnette, Bush, Kela, Diekman, Jeffress, and even Claudio it seems from one game to the next we could see anyone of them. I am not saying we have to go the route of traditional "roles" all the time. But I look at what the Giants, Cardinals, and Royals have done in recent years (all WS champions) and they have generally had pretty scripted 7th, 8th, and 9th inning guys with usually a junkballing lefty still available for that one left handed power hitter.

It is nice to have so many options, but is it possible we have too many options, and guys can't get comfortable with their roles or routines. Just a thought.

Bullpen roles are stupid.

 

[donaldson79]

Bullpen roles are stupid.

That's a tad on the overreaction side.

Other teams have done it successfully, and some are doing it right now.

I'm not married to it, but that doesn't make it stupid either.

 

[DT LUNA]

That's a tad on the overreaction side.

Other teams have done it successfully, and some are doing it right now.

I'm not married to it, but that doesn't make it stupid either.

I'm not married to it either but an established role can be better than a mgr. that doesn't know how to use what he has.

 

[RevSader]

That's a tad on the overreaction side.

Other teams have done it successfully, and some are doing it right now.

I'm not married to it, but that doesn't make it stupid either.

They do not maximize people's ability. You have guys toiling awesomely for years that don't get their proper due because they are not "closers".

 

[BULLPEN FAILURE]

They do not maximize people's ability. You have guys toiling awesomely for years that don't get their proper due because they are not "closers".

Not sure I really agree with that. Great non-closer bullpen pitchers are a known commodity throughout MLB.

 

[Bmurph]

RF
D. DeShields Jr. (R)
CF
Ian Desmond (R)
DH
Carlos Beltran (S)
3B
Adrian Beltre (R)
2B
Rougned Odor (L)
C
Jonathan Lucroy (R)
SS
Elvis Andrus (R)
1B
Ryan Rua (R)
LF
Carlos Gomez (R)


SEA: James Paxton (L) (4-5, 3.63)
TEX: Cole Hamels (L) (14-4, 2.67)

 

[RevSader]

Not sure I really agree with that. Great non-closer bullpen pitchers are a known commodity throughout MLB.

Tell that to their paychecks. Closers get paid more because it's seen as a premium. Every bit of data we have the last 20 years proves that wrong for most relievers outside of Rivera.

 

[donaldson79]

Tell that to their paychecks.

Ha ha ha ha.....pretty good.....and very accurate. Those middle-relievers aren't compensated properly. Or at least appropriately in comparison to what they deliver IMO.

 

[DT LUNA]

Ha ha ha ha.....pretty good.....and very accurate. Those middle-relievers aren't compensated properly. Or at least appropriately in comparison to what they deliver IMO.

Quite common in life I'd say. Not restricted to just baseball.

 

[RevSader]

Ha ha ha ha.....pretty good.....and very accurate. Those middle-relievers aren't compensated properly. Or at least appropriately in comparison to what they deliver IMO.

If you just broke up the salaries and paid all the relievers what they were truly worth it would be a better system than paying a closer 10 million a year. JD has not been big on paying closers and I like that.

Nathan has been the most expensive guy the Rangers had and he was 7 MM a year.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Quite common in life I'd say. Not restricted to just baseball.

I think many of us can relate to that. HA!

 

[WastinSomeTime]

If you just broke up the salaries and paid all the relievers what they were truly worth it would be a better system than paying a closer 10 million a year. JD has not been big on paying closers and I like that.

Nathan has been the most expensive guy the Rangers had and he was 7 MM a year.

Agree. We have seen first hand how just important 6th-8th inning guys have been in diffusing a big situation or keeping the Rangers up by a run or two. It can really play with another teams head if they think that if they are behind after 6 they are done.

 

[donaldson79]

If you just broke up the salaries and paid all the relievers what they were truly worth it would be a better system than paying a closer 10 million a year. JD has not been big on paying closers and I like that.

Nathan has been the most expensive guy the Rangers had and he was 7 MM a year.

What's ironic about our BP is we literally have 5 guys who on a given night could close.

And I too enjoy JD's attitude toward the closer pay.

 

[RevSader]

What's ironic about our BP is we literally have 5 guys who on a given night could close.

And I too enjoy JD's attitude toward the closer pay.

I also loved how he flipped "proven closers" in back to back years for pieces that helped Texas.