Best Second Baseman of all time

[MilkSpiller22]

Need more info, such as whether each played in a hitter friendly or pitcher friendly era.

I agree, but wondering how you factor that in...

 

[StanMarsh51]

I agree, but wondering how you factor that in...

Well that's part of why OPS+ should be utilized in a case like this.

 

[Nosferatu]

Need more info, such as whether each played in a hitter friendly or pitcher friendly era.

None of them played prior to 1968

 

[cerealboi]

Where is Pedroia? Guess we gotta go with "other".

 

[Naughtymax]

The Rajah, no close second. Alomar is proof that WAR needs work. Easily the best defender in the group.

 

[StanMarsh51]

None of them played prior to 1969

Still doesn't answer the question.

The '70s and '80s was still a pitcher-friendly time even if it wasn't as extreme as 1968, and the '90s and '00s were hitter friendly times as we all know.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Well that's part of why OPS+ should be utilized in a case like this.

As long as it doesn't do stadium factors, I guess I would agree... But how much do you take into account league average and OPS+...

 

[Nosferatu]

1980 = .265 League AVG
2000 = .270 League AVG

The big difference is Home Runs as there were nearly twice as many home runs in 2000 as there was in 1980 and we all know the reasons for that.

 

[broncosmitty]

1980 = .265 League AVG
2000 = .270 League AVG

The big difference is Home Runs as there were nearly twice as many home runs in 2000 as there was in 1980 and we all know the reasons for that.

Players learned how to adjust their swing to fit the era and ballpark they're in?



Stan's at it with the + stats again....

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Players learned how to adjust their swing to fit the era and ballpark they're in?



Stan's at it with the + stats again....

They have there use, but the question is how much should it be a factor.... I agree with you that players don't change their approach, but there were eras with different philosophies... The HR era, wasn't just about steroids, players would try to hit for HRs more...

But with that said, OPS+ should not be helping doubles hitters to become better sluggers than HR hitters...

 

[StanMarsh51]

1980 = .265 League AVG
2000 = .270 League AVG

The big difference is Home Runs as there were nearly twice as many home runs in 2000 as there was in 1980 and we all know the reasons for that.

Then again, 1980 was a high batting average season of that era...numerous seasons it was under .260 in the 1970s and 1980s. In 1972 when Grich had his first full season, the MLB average was just .244



Additionally:

1980 - .326 OBP
2000 - .345 OBP

1980 - 4.29 runs/game
2000 - 5.14 runs/game


Run scoring and offense in general was just a lot less commonplace back then.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Then again, 1980 was a high batting average season of that era...numerous seasons it was under .260 in the 1970s and 1980s. In 1972 when Grich had his first full season, the MLB average was just .244



Additionally:

1980 - .326 OBP
2000 - .345 OBP

1980 - 4.29 runs/game
2000 - 5.14 runs/game


Run scoring and offense in general was just a lot less commonplace back then.

'72 was a brutal year for hitters, especially in the AL...Dick Allen hit .308/.420/.603 with 37 HRs, very good but not historic numbers on the face of it, and his OPS+ was 199. For reference's sake, Miggy's peak is 190. Fisk was 2nd in the league in slugging in the .530 range.
Offense jumped after the horrible '68 season, but then drooped again in the early '70s...not sure why.

 

[jete02fan]

They are all good choices, just think alomar is the best. Still cant believe whitaker was dropped from HOF ballot in his first year of eligibility. I believe he is reinstated this year.

Alomar at his peak was unbelievable, great switch hitter, super range..was the first guy i saw catch the ball on the outside of the glove while turning two..

 

[jete02fan]

lucky to have seen a lot of really good 2nd baseman in my era 70' to present