Best Conference?

[TrollyMcTroller]

According to the composite KenPom/Sagarin/BPI ratings:

ACC

(2) Virginia
(6) Duke
(8) Louisville
(11) North Carolina
(13) Notre Dame
(48) North Carolina St.
(56) Miami FL
(59) Syracuse
(81) Georgia Tech
(92) Clemson
(100) Pittsburgh
(110) Wake Forest
(117) Florida St.
(118) Boston College
(150) Virginia Tech

No teams below average (175)
4 teams below .500 (27%)
3 Top 10 teams (20%)
5 Top 15 teams (33%)
5 Top 25 teams (33%)
6 Top 50 teams (40%)

Conf W/L: 216-114 (0.655)

Big 12

(9) Kansas
(12) Oklahoma
(16) Baylor
(17) West Virginia
(20) Iowa St.
(25) Texas
(32) Oklahoma St.
(47) TCU
(72) Kansas St.
(165) Texas Tech

No teams below average (175)
No teams below .500 (0%)
1 Top 10 teams (10%)
2 Top 15 teams (20%)
6 Top 25 teams (60%)
8 Top 50 teams (80%)

Conf W/L: 149-66 (0.693)

I'm leaning toward Big12 the most telling stat for me is this:
90% Of the Big12 teams are in the Top 20 percentile of Division 1. That's staggering.
53% Of the ACC makes that same cut. Still an impressive number, but c'mon.

 

[tducey]

ACC for me.

 

[douggie]

According to the composite KenPom/Sagarin/BPI ratings:

ACC

(2) Virginia
(6) Duke
(8) Louisville
(11) North Carolina
(13) Notre Dame
(48) North Carolina St.
(56) Miami FL
(59) Syracuse
(81) Georgia Tech
(92) Clemson
(100) Pittsburgh
(110) Wake Forest
(117) Florida St.
(118) Boston College
(150) Virginia Tech

No teams below average (175)
4 teams below .500 (27%)
3 Top 10 teams (20%)
5 Top 15 teams (33%)
5 Top 25 teams (33%)
6 Top 50 teams (40%)

Conf W/L: 216-114 (0.655)

Big 12

(9) Kansas
(12) Oklahoma
(16) Baylor
(17) West Virginia
(20) Iowa St.
(25) Texas
(32) Oklahoma St.
(47) TCU
(72) Kansas St.
(165) Texas Tech

No teams below average (175)
No teams below .500 (0%)
1 Top 10 teams (10%)
2 Top 15 teams (20%)
6 Top 25 teams (60%)
8 Top 50 teams (80%)

Conf W/L: 149-66 (0.693)

I'm leaning toward Big12 the most telling stat for me is this:
90% Of the Big12 teams are in the Top 20 percentile of Division 1. That's staggering.
53% Of the ACC makes that same cut. Still an impressive number, but c'mon.

I kind of wish there was a Big 12/ACC Challenge like the B1G/ACC. I actually thought Texas was going to be better than they are right now. Turner getting hurt kind of set them back. They can still get there, but it will just take a little longer. The ACC is top heavy while the Big 12 is more balanced. But I watched Tubby coach the other night and he needs some players. Geezus. West Virginia and Baylor are the biggest surprises for me. Oklahoma and Oklahoma State can compete with anyone. Iowa State is loaded, but Kansas is still in control of the Big 12. I guess the biggest test will be how many of these teams competes for the NCAA Title. I would say, without seeing brackets, that at least 8 of the sweet sixteen should be ACC/Big 12 teams. But that probably won't happen either. It will probably look a lot more like 4-6 teams.

 

[MI Nightmare]

1. ACC
2. B12

Relatively indisputable.

 

[jonvi]

We went through all of this last year and we had Florida and UK in the FF. And with that in mind, does anyone really think UK is not winning it all?

 

[dcZONAfan]

We went through all of this last year and we had Florida and UK in the FF. And with that in mind, does anyone really think UK is not winning it all?

I think UK has the most potential. I do not think they are going to win the tournament.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

1. ACC
2. B12

Relatively indisputable.

If you think the ACC is #1 and B12 is #2, that's fine, I won't try and talk you out of it, but to suggest it is indisputable, is pretty silly.

I think the debate generally boils down to what people think makes the best conference. The ACC reminds me a lot of the Big East from a few years ago. When the Big East had 47 teams and 6 of them were in the Top 25 the Big East fans said "Look how many good teams we have!" And while that may be true, just looking at the quantity (instead of the percentages) is always going to favor larger conferences.

If you think it is about how good the best teams in the conference are, I think that also favors the ACC right now because it is fairly top heavy. The top 5 teams in the ACC are all very good. but after that there is a drop off and then you have several more teams that are okay, then after that you have another dropoff and the rest aren't very good. The Big 12 doesn't start off quite as high as the ACC but it never really drops off until you get to the very last team. (and even that team isn't below .500)

I think if you look at only the top of the conference the ACC is the best by a pretty significant margin, but if you look at the whole conference (which was the question) the Big 12 is the winner.

But like I said, if you think the ACC as a whole is better, that's your opinion, but its hardly indisputable.

Can you at least make a case for the entire ACC being better than the entire Big 12?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I don't even think the entire ACC is better than the Big East.


I think what makes the Big12 and Big East tough and why they grade out in RPI so well is that they are all pretty much solid and it was proven out of conference when these leagues did the best by far.


The ACC has a top 5 that is fantastic but the bottom is absolutely atrocious and the middle is meh at best. Cuse is way down. Miami gets a solid win then loses to an awful team at home. Nc State is real tough at home I guess.


Big12 has a lot of really solid teams totaling 8. With TCU and Texas Tech both being bad but capable of home upsets. Wish Texas wasn't so maddening though.


BE doesn't have a great team(Not even Nova) but it has 7 very, very solid-good teams. Havn't looked at RPI to see if they are all still top 50 or not.


BE has only 1 awful team in Creighton. Then a 2nd team in Marquette that simply doesn't have to horses to finish off 40 minutes. DePaul is even finally improved(seriously about time they are not in the cellar)


ACC is better equipped for the tourney because it has 5 teams that are legit Sweet 16 and better teams. But the Big12 and BE are the more well rounded conferences right now and the amount of close games point to that.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

It depends. If you're asking as a whole (as in, going through the entire year with a tough schedule and tough venues to play in) then I think you gotta go with the Big12. It's a grind this year in conference play.... but when you look at teams that have a chance to make deep runs... aka high quality teams... I think I give an edge to the ACC.

This is not based of numbers or anything, just the old fashioned eye-ball test. I see a lot of those mid-tier Big12 teams as pretenders. Tough road games and quality opponents, but when the lights come on in March I see a lot of those teams fading away. ACC is too good at the top and that outweighs the mid to low tiers of each conference for me. I think we'll see more ACC teams in the Sweet 16 than Big 12 teams.

As far as going through the reg season, I give an edge to Big12.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

I don't even think the entire ACC is better than the Big East.

Interestingly enough, here are the Sagarin conference ratings (Top 10)

   1  BIG 12                  =  85.59      84.85  (  1)     10      85.11  (  1)
   2  BIG EAST                =  83.14      83.03  (  2)     10      83.06  (  2)
   3  BIG TEN                 =  82.24      82.32  (  4)     14      82.24  (  4)
   4  ATLANTIC COAST          =  82.11      82.88  (  3)     15      82.46  (  3)
   5  SOUTHEASTERN            =  80.95      81.19  (  5)     14      80.79  (  5)
   6  PAC-12                  =  80.03      80.53  (  6)     12      80.25  (  6)
   7  ATLANTIC 10             =  76.63      76.39  (  8)     14      76.49  (  7)
   8  WEST COAST              =  76.22      77.04  (  7)     10      76.48  (  8)
   9  MID-AMERICAN(east)      =  75.34      74.80  ( 10)      6      75.00  ( 10)
  10  AMERICAN ATHLETIC       =  75.33      75.27  (  9)     11      75.32  (  9)

So yeah... good call on that.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

And composite rankings for Big East since it was brought up

(7) Villanova
(18) Butler
(22) Georgetown
(23) Xavier
(41) Providence
(43) Seton Hall
(46) St. John's
(88) Marquette
(119) DePaul
(124) Creighton


Pretty solid.

 

[Runeman]

I think UK has the most potential. I do not think they are going to win the tournament.

The odds are the favorite at the beginning does not win...Great call...please don't come back at the end of the year and tell us how great you are should Kentucky lose. Just about anyone would, at this point take the field over ANY team.

 

[ericd7633]

I think it determines how you would define "best". The overall depth of the Big 12 and Big East means more to me than the top heavy ACC does. The Big 12 top to bottom, IMO is the best league, hands down. There is a great chance that 70% of that conference goes to the NCAA Tournament, which would be the highest % of a conference to make the tournament in its history, even more than the old Big East, which put 11 of 16 in the tournament back in 2011.

The Big East is right behind them, the thing that is hurting them is that DePaul had such a bad non conf and now they are taking wins from the bubble teams in that conference. I still think they get at least 6 when it's all said and done.

The ACC, while having 5 of the top 15 teams in the country, might only get those 5 in the NCAA Tournament, or in other words only 33% of the conference. That will probably only put them ahead of the Pac 12, in terms of the big 6 conferences, in terms of % of teams.

I'd go:
1. Big 12
2. Big East
3. ACC

And I will say, I think the ACC will have the best performance in the NCAA Tournament. They will have much more gaudy records, beating up on the mediocre middle and terrible bottom teams in the ACC. And because of that, will have better seeds.

 

[jonvi]

The odds are the favorite at the beginning does not win...Great call...please don't come back at the end of the year and tell us how great you are should Kentucky lose. Just about anyone would, at this point take the field over ANY team.

I think Vegas has UK at even odds against the field right now. UK has a lot of fans convinced.

 

[Runeman]

I think Vegas has UK at even odds against the field right now. UK has a lot of fans convinced.

If they were playing best of 3...I take Kentucky. One and done; the field is the better play. How often does the favorite win; especially when picked mid season?

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

If they were playing best of 3...I take Kentucky. One and done; the field is the better play. How often does the favorite win; especially when picked mid season?

Less than half the time. Which is why the "favorite" is usually a dog to the field.

Betting based purely on the odds will likely win you money in the long run. But in the short term it's a stupid strategy. I'd take the field in most years too, but this isn't most years. This is this year.

If you don't think this Kentucky team is good enough to warrant the even money odds, that's fine. But if you're just basing your statements on past fields, you're a fucking idiot.

 

[RazorsEdge]

ACC

 

[BUD]

ACC

 

[Arizona_Sting]

It depends. If you're asking as a whole (as in, going through the entire year with a tough schedule and tough venues to play in) then I think you gotta go with the Big12. It's a grind this year in conference play.... but when you look at teams that have a chance to make deep runs... aka high quality teams... I think I give an edge to the ACC.

This is not based of numbers or anything, just the old fashioned eye-ball test. I see a lot of those mid-tier Big12 teams as pretenders. Tough road games and quality opponents, but when the lights come on in March I see a lot of those teams fading away. ACC is too good at the top and that outweighs the mid to low tiers of each conference for me. I think we'll see more ACC teams in the Sweet 16 than Big 12 teams.

As far as going through the reg season, I give an edge to Big12.

God I'm a fucking genius. Nailed it.

 

[jontaejones]

It's not the best conference, but for the amount of shit that's talked about the Big East, they had a good day yesterday. Eastern Washington and Texas and the 'BYU/Ole Miss' winner were basically guaranteed to be winners by the majority.

C'mon. Eastern Washington...