Best Catcher of All Time...

[broncosmitty]

Someone voted other?

Im an idiot, didn't catch the not named Bench part. Thought you were playing some kind of sick game.

Josh Gibson very well could be, but we'll never know what kind of power hitter he really was.

I think Yogi and Campy are 1st and 2nd behind JB. But man o man was Pudge Rodriguez ever one helluva catcher. (Rangers version, but I loved him as a Tiger too.)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Apparently as I am the only one on Gary carter and got laughed(exaggeration) at for saying carter was the best defensive catcher.

What do you guys use to judge defense?? It can't be the eye test because many of us haven't seen all of these players. I have always found dWAR to be best for defense despite my dislike of the WAR statistic. And dWAR clearly shows carter to be the best defensive catcher. Which I have explained in previous posts!!

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Apparently as I am the only one on Gary carter and got laughed(exaggeration) at for saying carter was the best defensive catcher.

What do you guys use to judge defense?? It can't be the eye test because many of us haven't seen all of these players. I have always found dWAR to be best for defense despite my dislike of the WAR statistic. And dWAR clearly shows carter to be the best defensive catcher. Which I have explained in previous posts!!

I have no idea what DWAR or any of those other new dealies mean. This is why I can't have a conversation about baseball anymore, because the stats have passed me by.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I have no idea what DWAR or any of those other new dealies mean. This is why I can't have a conversation about baseball anymore, because the stats have passed me by.

its spelled dWAR, come on MAN... JK...

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

its spelled dWAR, come on MAN... JK...

See?? Impotence. All's I know is they look good in their uniforms (no Rainbow)

 

[Nosferatu]

I have no idea what DWAR or any of those other new dealies mean. This is why I can't have a conversation about baseball anymore, because the stats have passed me by.

They haven't passed you by, the game is still the same and the stats we have always used work just fine, you just got these i'm smarter than everyone else people who like to throw around advanced stats so they sound smart...

 

[lasgop8]

Buster Posey in 10 years.

 

[navamind]

Buster Posey in 10 years.

He may not even be catching in a few years. I'd be shocked if the Giants didn't move him over in the near future to preserve his health. Especially now that they have an exciting young catcher in Susac.

 

[navamind]

They haven't passed you by, the game is still the same and the stats we have always used work just fine, you just got these i'm smarter than everyone else people who like to throw around advanced stats so they sound smart...

Yes, that's totally what it is.

 

[Nosferatu]

Yes, that's totally what it is.

See...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

They haven't passed you by, the game is still the same and the stats we have always used work just fine, you just got these i'm smarter than everyone else people who like to throw around advanced stats so they sound smart...

Then how do you measure defense??

 

[Nosferatu]

Then how do you measure defense??

Good Lord guys I was messin' around...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Good Lord guys I was messin' around...

No, I am just trying to figure out why I got laughed at when I said Carter is the best defensive catcher of all time... My feelings almost got hurt...

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Then how do you measure defense??

Yeah, see, my impulse is to go "errors," but I understand that there is a bit of subjectivity with those. We also have things like putouts. I dunno? I'd ask you to explain dWAR but i won't get it. Others have tried; it's not the teachers' fault, I just don't care enough to learn it.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yeah, see, my impulse is to go "errors," but I understand that there is a bit of subjectivity with those. We also have things like putouts. I dunno? I'd ask you to explain dWAR but i won't get it. Others have tried; it's not the teachers' fault, I just don't care enough to learn it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like WAR, but for defense I don't see any other stat than dWAR, nor group of stats that are easy to find that answer who is the better defender... At least with offense, there is so much data you can make your own analysis...

 

[Wazmankg]

Don't get me wrong, I don't like WAR, but for defense I don't see any other stat than dWAR, nor group of stats that are easy to find that answer who is the better defender... At least with offense, there is so much data you can make your own analysis...

Why don't you explain what how dWAR is computed and while you're at it explain why you value it so highly for this comparison, yet claim that you don't like it. That seems rather contradictory don't you think ? I gave you the fact that their fielding % were identical and Bench was much more successful at throwing out base runners as well as intimidating them into not attempting as often. There are tangible numbers which indicate that. So let's start there. Bench was better at holding runners and throwing them out when they did try him. What have you got ?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Why don't you explain what how dWAR is computed and while you're at it explain why you value it so highly for this comparison, yet claim that you don't like it. That seems rather contradictory don't you think ? I gave you the fact that their fielding % were identical and Bench was much more successful at throwing out base runners as well as intimidating them into not attempting as often. There are tangible numbers which indicate that. So let's start there. Bench was better at holding runners and throwing them out when they did try him. What have you got ?

Lets take WAR out of the picture for a second and just look at defensive stats... doesn't matter whether the numbers are close or not, just saying which Catcher was better as a catcher in each category

Bench was far superior vs the stolen Base...

Carter was far superior in Passed balls, and Wild pitches(who knows how many of these actually matter)

Bench was slightly better at double plays

Carter had a better ERA when he was catcher than Bench did, and had a better differential of ERA when playing against when not playing...

Carter had a better fielding %

As for SB, carter was better at MEANINGFUL caught stealing(weird stat, but it is a stat)

Carter played significantly more games as catcher, as Bench played a lot more at other positions

 

[gvsulaker82]

Pudge.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I have no idea what DWAR or any of those other new dealies mean. This is why I can't have a conversation about baseball anymore, because the stats have passed me by.

If you have been.watching baseball for years stats aren't necessary. They are a nice tool to reference, but you will know.

 

[StanMarsh51]

If you have been.watching baseball for years stats aren't necessary. They are a nice tool to reference, but you will know.

What makes you trust the memory/opinion of everyone who's watched baseball for years?

I mean, I know lifelong Yankee fans that have tried to argue that Jeter's wasn't a bad defensive shortstop. Should I take their word because they've seen Jeter play their entire careers?