Ben Simmons formally demands trade

[The Q]

OK. I see what you are saying now. You were talking about signing Harden in space.

Yes, if they try to sign Harden in space then they would need to let Green go and move both Simmons and Harden and take back close to no salary in return. You could argue that would be better as they could just trade Simmons for assets in such a situation.

Yeah it seems like we were not talking about the same thing based on your responses

But you’d lose 2 starters plus Simmons.

And you’d lose picks to dump Harris

If you want to win the next 2 years it’s gonna be hard to both move Harris and replace him with no cap space (since you’re using it on harden)

Just send the picks to dump Harris to Brooklyn and keep Harris.

The sixers end up in a better place

 

[The Q]

maybe I am not looking at it right---- but I wouldnt be rushing to give Harden and Beal 5 year 250 million dollar contracts in the offseason

maybe the numbers just seem big-- and it will normalize (which I am sure it will)- but Harden is getting old and plays no D right now.

Beal is younger- so Id feel more comfortable there- but hes definitely never been as good as Harden - and I am def. questioning if he is a guy who is a #1. He seems better suited as a #2.

Honestly beal might be a number 3 on a tema with a Simmons type player on it.

3rd best player but maybe second on offense

 

[fightinfunbags]

Woj throwing some ice water on this Harden to the Sixers heat. Seems like James doesn’t want the public criticism of begging out of a team two years in a row.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah it seems like we were not talking about the same thing based on your responses

But you’d lose 2 starters plus Simmons.

And you’d lose picks to dump Harris

If you want to win the next 2 years it’s gonna be hard to both move Harris and replace him with no cap space (since you’re using it on harden)

Just send the picks to dump Harris to Brooklyn and keep Harris.

The sixers end up in a better place

The devil is in the details.

If the trade is Simmons/Green/1st round pick that makes some sense. But 2 1st changes things. Because then the Sixers are pretty much tapped out on tradeable assets for a long while. It's basically all or nothing with the current team, plus scrap heap pickups.

OTOH, if they don't make the trade but instead trade Simmons for a couple of 1sts and maybe some rotation type players, they could then move on from Harris, giving up some trade assets and then make a move to bring in a new 4 with those trade assets.

So Morey has no incentive to really overspend for Harden. Now Woj is saying that Harden is telling everyone he wants to go to Philly but won't demand a trade from fear of public backlash.

 

[flyerhawk]

Woj throwing some ice water on this Harden to the Sixers heat. Seems like James doesn’t want the public criticism of begging out of a team two years in a row.

Yeah but he's also making it clear through the press that he wants out. So clearly Sean Marks knows this.

FTR, I'm not surprised that Marks and Morey haven't spoken yet. This is a game of chicken. Both sides are trying to push the other side into capitulating. But a deal makes too much sense for both teams right now. It arguably makes both teams better. IMO, I think you could reasonably argue that it improves the Nets more than it improves the Sixers.

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[thunderc]

The Lakers and the Nets are perfect examples of desired super teams gone bad. Both teams would have been better off manning up and going with what they had. Everyone wants a shortcut, they don’t always work.

 

[The Q]

The devil is in the details.

If the trade is Simmons/Green/1st round pick that makes some sense. But 2 1st changes things. Because then the Sixers are pretty much tapped out on tradeable assets for a long while. It's basically all or nothing with the current team, plus scrap heap pickups.

OTOH, if they don't make the trade but instead trade Simmons for a couple of 1sts and maybe some rotation type players, they could then move on from Harris, giving up some trade assets and then make a move to bring in a new 4 with those trade assets.

So Morey has no incentive to really overspend for Harden. Now Woj is saying that Harden is telling everyone he wants to go to Philly but won't demand a trade from fear of public backlash.

It’s gonna cost you 2 firsts just to move Harris.

So it’s really those picks are gone either way

 

[WiggyRuss]

Honestly beal might be a number 3 on a tema with a Simmons type player on it.

3rd best player but maybe second on offense

if it happens- can you remember a bigger NBA trade?

off the top of my head I cant.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Lakers and the Nets are perfect examples of desired super teams gone bad. Both teams would have been better off manning up and going with what they had. Everyone wants a shortcut, they don’t always work.

true....

Lakers just made that horrible RW deal and really squandered a lot of assets during their 7 years without a playoff win. But- in their defense- year 4 with LeBron- a team is usually tapped out of assets.


The Nets---- I mean if Harden, Durant and Kyrie are all healthy and can play- they have as good a shot as anyone to win the title I would say. Its on a razors edge now- but its hard to quantify it as a failure yet..........I dunno. Its hard to say.

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[fightinfunbags]

Yeah but he's also making it clear through the press that he wants out. So clearly Sean Marks knows this.

FTR, I'm not surprised that Marks and Morey haven't spoken yet. This is a game of chicken. Both sides are trying to push the other side into capitulating. But a deal makes too much sense for both teams right now. It arguably makes both teams better. IMO, I think you could reasonably argue that it improves the Nets more than it improves the Sixers.

Agree with that sentiment. It’s reminiscent for me of Embiid’s draft year. The Sixers were saved from themselves. They tanked for Wiggins or Parker, fell to 3 in the lottery and ended up “settling” for the best player in that draft. The Nets threw caution to the wind and acquired the 3 best players they could with no regard for the fact that Harden and Kyrie are both ball dominant and don’t fit together when by all rights KD should be getting the most shots on that team anyway. They get a situation like Ben Simmons that falls in their lap to fix it. I agree that this really helps the Nets. That’s why throwing in pieces that are anything but salary filler is insane.

 

[The Q]

Agree with that sentiment. It’s reminiscent for me of Embiid’s draft year. The Sixers were saved from themselves. They tanked for Wiggins or Parker, fell to 3 in the lottery and ended up “settling” for the best player in that draft. The Nets threw caution to the wind and acquired the 3 best players they could with no regard for the fact that Harden and Kyrie are both ball dominant and don’t fit together when by all rights KD should be getting the most shots on that team anyway. They get a situation like Ben Simmons that falls in their lap to fix it. I agree that this really helps the Nets. That’s why throwing in pieces that are anything but salary filler is insane.

Embiid was only there because of his injury.

In a world when Greg oden didn’t exist he still might’ve gone 1-1

 

[flyerhawk]

It’s gonna cost you 2 firsts just to move Harris.

So it’s really those picks are gone either way

Sure. It's possible. Or maybe not. I know you view Harris as one of the worst contracts in basketball but it really isn't. He's overpaid for sure. But he's a productive player that any team would love to have, salary notwithstanding. The Sixers didn't give up 2 1sts to move Horford who was MUCH more problematic as a player than Harris is.

 

[fightinfunbags]

true....

Lakers just made that horrible RW deal and really squandered a lot of assets during their 7 years without a playoff win. But- in their defense- year 4 with LeBron- a team is usually tapped out of assets.


The Nets---- I mean if Harden, Durant and Kyrie are all healthy and can play- they have as good a shot as anyone to win the title I would say. Its on a razors edge now- but its hard to quantify it as a failure yet..........I dunno. Its hard to say.

I was calling it a failure from the jump. It’s a non-fit and the team has massive holes when it comes to the 5 position, rebounding, and defense.

 

[The Q]

Sure. It's possible. Or maybe not. I know you view Harris as one of the worst contracts in basketball but it really isn't. He's overpaid for sure. But he's a productive player that any team would love to have, salary notwithstanding. The Sixers didn't give up 2 1sts to move Horford who was MUCH more problematic as a player than Harris is.

Horford was a better player but a worse fit in Philly.

Hell al is still better

 

[The Q]

I was calling it a failure from the jump. It’s a non-fit and the team has massive holes when it comes to the 5 position, rebounding, and defense.

The 5 thing though I get. Teams find good cheap centers all the time.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Embiid was only there because of his injury.

In a world when Greg oden didn’t exist he still might’ve gone 1-1

Agree on that and being honest, I had a Wiggins Parker myself at that time and draft night was at a rehearsal dinner with friends for a wedding and I told a few people it was a mistake to take an injured big man haha. Shows what I know

 

[shopson67]

The Lakers and the Nets are perfect examples of desired super teams gone bad. Both teams would have been better off manning up and going with what they had. Everyone wants a shortcut, they don’t always work.

Nets had a better situation, had their first 2 start the roster, then add a guy that forced himself out. Lakers had their first two, then felt they had to take the only guy left and available to them as their third.

Of course, the mental fatigue of dealing with Kyrie and the quitter Harden evens that out quickly.

 

[The Q]

Agree on that and being honest, I had a Wiggins Parker myself at that time and draft night was at a rehearsal dinner with friends for a wedding and I told a few people it was a mistake to take an injured big man haha. Shows what I know

I was all in on embiid but obviously no idea on medicals.

I was not a Parker guy at all.

Wiggins has been a disappointment, laughable fan rigging this year not withstanding