Ben Roethlisberger

[Ojb81]

Anybody else scared as hell looking at these numbers?

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

 

[Bridgeburner]

So. Ben Roethlisberger. Really not sure how I feel about his play at this point. Mostly because I can't separate his play from the incompetence of the coaching staff. But he's being crucified by Pittsburgh area sports talk. Not sure how many of you guys are local and listen to it, but since the playoff loss it's been a broken record:

1. Ben is washed up. Unable to contend for another Super Bowl and he's holding the team hostage by refusing to retire.
2. The offensive coaching problems are largely his fault because Sphincter was a Ben guy and just did what Ben wanted to do.
3. The lack of a running game is Bens fault because Ben doesn't want to run so the Steelers won't.

I don't think Ben is washed up. I do think he's a different quarterback now with his mobility but I think his arm is still live. If the offensive line was in better shape I would be all for hoping that defense could stay healthy and taking one more run. That's my confidence level in Ben. I think. But I don't think he's the kind of quarterback that can overcome a shitshow offensive line or carry a depleted defense deep into the postseason. I do think if the defense is dominant (could be) and the line is solid (won't be) he could win another title if Mahomes is abducted by aliens.

Ben's influence on the offensive gameplan and playcalling... aren't all these assumptions? I was under the impression that we didn't really know for sure. The Pitt talking heads just over and over call it out like it's fact. Ben runs this offense. Ben makes the decisions. Nothing happens without Ben's approval. Maybe? But do we know for certain?

I'm all for giving a franchise QB a voice in those things. As long as his voice is helping. If it's not you need a strong coaching staff to take the reins back.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

So. Ben Roethlisberger. Really not sure how I feel about his play at this point. Mostly because I can't separate his play from the incompetence of the coaching staff. But he's being crucified by Pittsburgh area sports talk. Not sure how many of you guys are local and listen to it, but since the playoff loss it's been a broken record:

1. Ben is washed up. Unable to contend for another Super Bowl and he's holding the team hostage by refusing to retire.
2. The offensive coaching problems are largely his fault because Sphincter was a Ben guy and just did what Ben wanted to do.
3. The lack of a running game is Bens fault because Ben doesn't want to run so the Steelers won't.

I don't think Ben is washed up. I do think he's a different quarterback now with his mobility but I think his arm is still live. If the offensive line was in better shape I would be all for hoping that defense could stay healthy and taking one more run. That's my confidence level in Ben. I think. But I don't think he's the kind of quarterback that can overcome a shitshow offensive line or carry a depleted defense deep into the postseason. I do think if the defense is dominant (could be) and the line is solid (won't be) he could win another title if Mahomes is abducted by aliens.

Ben's influence on the offensive gameplan and playcalling... aren't all these assumptions? I was under the impression that we didn't really know for sure. The Pitt talking heads just over and over call it out like it's fact. Ben runs this offense. Ben makes the decisions. Nothing happens without Ben's approval. Maybe? But do we know for certain?

I'm all for giving a franchise QB a voice in those things. As long as his voice is helping. If it's not you need a strong coaching staff to take the reins back.

It's an easy narrative to push right now because it all adds up so effortlessly...

Honestly I think its a combination of both of their faults for the offensive inconsistency. But they did the best they could with a bottom shelf O-line in front of them. It's like trying to run an offense with your legs tied together. And things were perfectly fine for what, 10/16 games? Really not as doom and gloom as everyone is painting it right now. It wasn't until the receivers started dropping everything that the season started to snowball.

Was it Ben's fault the O-line played like a bottom 5 unit? Was it Ben's fault his receivers led the league in drops?

The offense just had too many fundamental flaws for the blame to be this precise. IMO Ben still has something in the tank, but he's definitely not worth the $40m cap hit he's set to incur. It's cap suicide if the Steelers intend to honor that. Not saying he hasn't earned it... But this is a terrible problem to have.

 

[Bridgeburner]

It's an easy narrative to push right now because it all adds up so effortlessly...

Honestly I think its a combination of both of their faults for the offensive inconsistency. But they did the best they could with a bottom shelf O-line in front of them. It's like trying to run an offense with your legs tied together. And things were perfectly fine for what, 10/16 games? Really not as doom and gloom as everyone is painting it right now. It wasn't until the receivers started dropping everything that the season started to snowball.

Was it Ben's fault the O-line played like a bottom 5 unit? Was it Ben's fault his receivers led the league in drops?

The offense just had too many fundamental flaws for the blame to be this precise. IMO Ben still has something in the tank, but he's definitely not worth the $40m cap hit he's set to incur. It's cap suicide if the Steelers intend to honor that. Not saying he hasn't earned it... But this is a terrible problem to have.

^^^Right. I saw three main problems with the offense while doing keg stands with my elderly aunt. 1. The offensive line. 2. The drops. 3. The playcalling. But somehow this is Ben's fault.

I think I blame the coaching staff (I'm looking at you Tomlin) regardless of Ben's involvement. If they allowed themselves to be handcuffed to something that wasn't working to appease a player then they shouldn't be in the position they are in. I'm not sure why Ben is being blamed regardless. I'm sure he has things he likes. I'm sure he expects to be heard. I'm sure he has a say. But ultimately it's on Tomlin to manage that on the way to putting the team in the best position to win.

A side note. Ed Booooshet was saying this morning that people are jumping the gun saying Ben is coming back. He thinks Ben wants to come back but he thinks that he might reconsider once talking to the Steelers about the changes and rebuilding of the offense.

 

[Superbelt]

A competent run game means everything isn't on Ben's shoulders to pass into tight windows at players who are too likely to drop the ball.

Fix that, and lower Ben's cap hits, and I am ok trying to ride him a few more years.

Ben can absolutely still throw the ball.

And Tom Brady made it to the title game throwing 3 int's this weekend himself.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

^^^Right. I saw three main problems with the offense while doing keg stands with my elderly aunt. 1. The offensive line. 2. The drops. 3. The playcalling. But somehow this is Ben's fault.

I think I blame the coaching staff (I'm looking at you Tomlin) regardless of Ben's involvement. If they allowed themselves to be handcuffed to something that wasn't working to appease a player then they shouldn't be in the position they are in. I'm not sure why Ben is being blamed regardless. I'm sure he has things he likes. I'm sure he expects to be heard. I'm sure he has a say. But ultimately it's on Tomlin to manage that on the way to putting the team in the best position to win.

A side note. Ed Booooshet was saying this morning that people are jumping the gun saying Ben is coming back. He thinks Ben wants to come back but he thinks that he might reconsider once talking to the Steelers about the changes and rebuilding of the offense.

What doesn't make sense to me is that... For the sake of that narrative discussion... If Ben had so much involvement in playcalling/offensive-scheme, then how come the offensive efficiency skyrocketed whenever Ben went no-huddle & ad-libbed his plays in the huddle? That to me tells me that Fichtner was more to blame than Ben.

Retirement... Yea its hard to say what is going through his mind right now. Said it from the outset that if Randy is fired (which he absolutely had to be) then why would Ben want to play 1 final season learning a new offense? That's a hard sell. But also, if Pouncey's retirement rumors are true, then that could easily pull Ben outta the fight. I don't see either one of them wanting to play if the other retires.

 

[redseat]

Do local media not realize Big Ben wasn't 100% healthy, barely had any arm left and the coaching staff forced him to throw? OF course that will equal a recipe for disaster.. It had to wear on him throwing that much..

But that's why local media does all shock and no actually value...

Is Big Ben done? I don't think so but he clearly isn't himself

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Do local media not realize Big Ben wasn't 100% healthy, barely had any arm left and the coaching staff forced him to throw? OF course that will equal a recipe for disaster.. It had to wear on him throwing that much..

But that's why local media does all shock and no actually value...

Is Big Ben done? I don't think so but he clearly isn't himself

His health had less to do with his arm than it did with his knees. I think it was the Dallas game where he took a shot to the left knee and his mobility & throwing mechanics were shot for the rest of the year.

He still made a wide range of difficult throws this year. Granted it was pretty inconsistent. But I think its a little rash to think he "barely had any arm left".

 

[redseat]

His health had less to do with his arm than it did with his knees. I think it was the Dallas game where he took a shot to the left knee and his mobility & throwing mechanics were shot for the rest of the year.

He still made a wide range of difficult throws this year. Granted it was pretty inconsistent. But I think its a little rash to think he "barely had any arm left".

My comment was just to the fact that the Steelers forced him to throw that much

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

My comment was just to the fact that the Steelers forced him to throw that much

Very much agree on that point. I said it many times in the offseason last year that they needed to dial back their passing attempts if the offense was going to work fluidly and that it was playing with fire to rely on Ben's arm. But at the time I was disregarding my own thoughts about the decline in O-line play.

Offense was able to work just fine for 10 games relying on Ben's arm. After that injury to his knee and the offense's inability to evolve because of a handicap with its O-line, it was headed toward certain doom... The WR drops for 3-4 weeks were just a compounding factor to an inept offense.

 

[redseat]

Very much agree on that point. I said it many times in the offseason last year that they needed to dial back their passing attempts if the offense was going to work fluidly and that it was playing with fire to rely on Ben's arm. But at the time I was disregarding my own thoughts about the decline in O-line play.

Offense was able to work just fine for 10 games relying on Ben's arm. After that injury to his knee and the offense's inability to evolve because of a handicap with its O-line, it was headed toward certain doom... The WR drops for 3-4 weeks were just a compounding factor to an inept offense.

Oh come on Ebron only accounted for 3/4ths of those drops!!

 

[thedddd]

Agree with all that was said. Don’t forget we are talking about local Steeler fans who used to always think the backup was better than the starter. Have to give props to Mason Rudolph for changing that mindset.

 

[Superbelt]

If you can't run in December in the North, you aren't winning many games.

2nd December game is when the Steelers started losing.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Oh come on Ebron only accounted for 3/4ths of those drops!!

I'd say it was closer to 30% Ebron, 60% D Johnson, and 10% the rest of the knuckleheads.

But since the drop stat is extremely subjective... Who the hell knows

 

[redseat]

I'd say it was closer to 30% Ebron, 60% D Johnson, and 10% the rest of the knuckleheads.

But since the drop stat is extremely subjective... Who the hell knows

I was just trying to keep in your lines of bashing Ebron is all

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I was just trying to keep in your lines of bashing Ebron is all

Lol. Don't get me started on Ebron.

If the Steelers keep him under contract in 2021 then I'll open those doors. Until then, I just want to forget that he exists.

 

[redseat]

Lol. Don't get me started on Ebron.

If the Steelers keep him under contract in 2021 then I'll open those doors. Until then, I just want to forget that he exists.

But it gives me so much joy to see other teams fans as upset with their players as I am with the Pats!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

But it gives me so much joy to see other teams fans as upset with their players as I am with the Pats!

Misery loves company.

 

[redseat]

Misery loves company.

Exactly so let's all be miserable together and just bash away lol