Back up QB?

[richig07]

I've never heard this kind of thing said about the great ones...Only the "never-have-been-or-will-bes"....

Traded up for 2nd pick of the draft...We whiffed so hard. We're in "salvage" mode ffs.

Exactly. What kind of great QB ever went through the entire early portion of his career getting this laundry list of excuses made for him as stinks up the league with a bottom 5 season, nearly across the board in year #3?

IMO, you know a QB is on the verge of being finished when he's on his 2nd or 3rd year of the "But his line!" "But his run game!" "But his weapons!" crap.

That's what I always come back to. Every high 1st round pick ever that busts. You always, always hear those excuses. Play calling, WR's, coaching, line... It's just a turn-style of excuses until it just becomes too obvious to ignore. Which most people are already at among Bears fans.

But there's always a few true, hardcore guys who hang onto the "We ruined him!" excuse even after said QB leaves. "He never had a chance!".

What percentage of guys who get those excuses wind-up being legit franchise QB's? I seriously cannot think of one. Maybe there's a few who wound up being "middling"...? That's all I could reasonably fathom.

And for the record. I'm not talking about a QB who is already playing at a decent/good level and fans talk about him needing a couple more pieces to push him over the hump to "elite-ish" status. That's not what Trubisky is. Trubisky is a guy who needs a big push over the hump just to become middling/serviceable.

Even with Cutler, the excuses made more sense. At least he would go on legit runs of play and you might see flashes. Mitch has like 6 isolated games of legit franchise level play out of 41 chances and I still don't see one thing he is good at besides running. Which he really doesn't even do anymore.

 

[richig07]

I have no idea.....but as bad as o- line play was, we could use two......especially now Long is retired......

It was horrible....nuff said.

We have a Charles Leno and Bobby Massie problem. Contractually, I mean.

It's hard to see us going away from them after just having invested into them. I only see one spot really being open and that's Long's RG spot. Whitehair is our one good/dependable dude. I still like Daniels, he showed stuff in bursts last year and I think we have to keep in mind that he was still the youngest guy on the team at 21.

Leno/Massie were brutal, though. And I don't really see them transitioning to guard. Ideally, I guess you would make Leno the RT and bring in a legitimate LT. But I just don't think we can. We don't have the cap really and even if we did... I don't know how you bench either one with their current deals.

I think that's why we fired Hiestand. Bring in someone who can try to fix those two since they can't be replaced.

I swear, I'll eat a huge plate of crow on Leno. I don't know WHAT THE HELL happened to that guy. He was regarded as being one of the most underrated LT's in football. Then, he got that deal and he ate a giant shit sandwich. It was basically unwatchable.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

I've never heard this kind of thing said about the great ones...Only the "never-have-been-or-will-bes"....

Traded up for 2nd pick of the draft...We whiffed so hard. We're in "salvage" mode ffs.

I have heard it said about all the great ones and all the bad ones. Name me one QB who won a SB without a good team around him.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Exactly. What kind of great QB ever went through the entire early portion of his career getting this laundry list of excuses made for him as stinks up the league with a bottom 5 season, nearly across the board in year #3?

IMO, you know a QB is on the verge of being finished when he's on his 2nd or 3rd year of the "But his line!" "But his run game!" "But his weapons!" crap.

That's what I always come back to. Every high 1st round pick ever that busts. You always, always hear those excuses. Play calling, WR's, coaching, line... It's just a turn-style of excuses until it just becomes too obvious to ignore. Which most people are already at among Bears fans.

But there's always a few true, hardcore guys who hang onto the "We ruined him!" excuse even after said QB leaves. "He never had a chance!".

What percentage of guys who get those excuses wind-up being legit franchise QB's? I seriously cannot think of one. Maybe there's a few who wound up being "middling"...? That's all I could reasonably fathom.

And for the record. I'm not talking about a QB who is already playing at a decent/good level and fans talk about him needing a couple more pieces to push him over the hump to "elite-ish" status. That's not what Trubisky is. Trubisky is a guy who needs a big push over the hump just to become middling/serviceable.

Even with Cutler, the excuses made more sense. At least he would go on legit runs of play and you might see flashes. Mitch has like 6 isolated games of legit franchise level play out of 41 chances and I still don't see one thing he is good at besides running. Which he really doesn't even do anymore.

Facts are not excuses Rich. No QB will be very good without a good team around him. The difference between a good QB and a bad QB is the situation he falls into more then it is the QB himself. But it seems you have your mind made up so I won't bother trying to change it.

 

[Jiddy]

I have heard it said about all the great ones and all the bad ones. Name me one QB who won a SB without a good team around him.

I meant more "give him next year to sink or swim" and that kind of bullsh*t.

Every QB where you keep saying "oh it's coming...just wait"...That sh*t never pans out to anything but maybe a decent few seasons. Like Cutler. But Trubisky isn't even as good as Cutler.

But yeah, I guess you got me that SB teams need to be good. *high five*

 

[wood20ks]

I have heard it said about all the great ones and all the bad ones. Name me one QB who won a SB without a good team around him.

Im at work.....Ge back to you later on that.....lol

 

[richig07]

I have heard it said about all the great ones and all the bad ones. Name me one QB who won a SB without a good team around him.

We're not talking about a QB whose established as being good/great needing some more help to win a ring. We're talking about a QB who is among the worst in every passing category getting excuses such as "he needs a line!" "he needs more WR's!" just so he doesn't play like such a bust.

It's not even like Mitch is close. It's like saying "Mitch needs everything to be perfect around him in order not to be one of the worst starters in football".

Mitch has had the best statistical defense spanning the last two seasons. That's a helluva start. They've gone 20-12 during that time despite a putrid passing game and QB play. Yet, that's a bad team? Sounds like a QB problem.

Ben won with a historically bad line. Rodgers won with a poor run game, a bad line and a team that set the record for most players on IR. The vast majority of SB teams have flaws.

 

[richig07]

Facts are not excuses Rich. No QB will be very good without a good team around him. The difference between a good QB and a bad QB is the situation he falls into more then it is the QB himself. But it seems you have your mind made up so I won't bother trying to change it.

And you don't have your mind made up, Noon?

They aren't facts. They're hypotheticals. It's unknowable whether it would help or not. They're excuses. That's what an excuse is.... You are "excusing him for poor play".

Situations can only do so much for a QB as inept as Mitch.

A supporting cast also needs a good QB to look good. Robinson, Miller... these guys get open. A lot.

A supporting cast cannot help Mitch missing them downfield or not seeing them. Which happened regularly. Jerry Rice can't catch a ball ten feet over his head while he's running open downfield.


The difference between a good QB and a bad QB is the situation he falls into more then it is the QB himself.

Because it's not like good QB's ever come into a poor offense and turn it around. It's not like Jimmy G arrived in San Francisco and won 5 straight with a team that was 1-10.

Boy, you sure do like to talk out of your ass.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Boy, you sure do like to talk out of your ass.

I don't believe I'm the one talking out of my ass Rich, I think it's you. If he was half as bad as you say why is he starting? Why are we not looking for his replacement? Why are we building around him? Why do the professional coach and GM agree with me and disagree with you. And they are afraid to let Jimmy G throw a pass so again it's you talking out of your ass, FACT. And they are in fact facts. Our Oline blows, FACT. We have the worst run game and run support in the league, FACT. We have a TE based offense with no TE, Fact. We have a good HC who is a terrible OC calling the plays FACT. And why does every player on the team support Trubisky? I guess they don't know as much as you Rich.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

And you don't have your mind made up, Noon?

My mind is not made up at all. I can't judge Trubisky with all the negative shit going on around him. I believe he can be a pretty good QB in the right situation and I believe every QB in the league would have sucked here last season.