Awkward Overreaction from week 1: Are The Eagles The Best Team in the NFC East?

[Rockinkuwait]

He's obviously a great coach just getting started in the NFL. You can't bag all over his personal decisions and then ignore his winning record at the same time. You're basically saying he won with trash.

How? Roseman had the personnel power in 2013/2014. Chip wrested that free in 2015, took it over and made his guy, Marynowitz the #2 there.

I'll give him credit as a coach, I have done that. Kinda similar to the turnaround Wayne Fontes got in Detroit.

But when he took over on the decisions with the roster, not many of them that you can say were good. In fact, even though it is early in, could you name a team with a worse 2015 as far as personnel moves?

 

[eaglesnut]

Kelly may or may not be a good coach, but he was an absolutely disastrous personnel guy. Paying big money to not one but two injury prone running backs, trading for Sam Bradford, drafting mediocre Oregon players like Josh Huff in the third round--it was really bad.

He traded less for Sam than we got for Sam and we got 14 games of him also. That deal was a winner.

 

[eaglesnut]

He's obviously a great coach just getting started in the NFL. You can't bag all over his personal decisions and then ignore his winning record at the same time. You're basically saying he won with trash.

No, he won with Andy Reid's players, then traded them away and started losing.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

He traded less for Sam than we got for Sam and we got 14 games of him also. That deal was a winner.

Really? That move was a key part of why Philly was a 7 win team last year. Honestly I can't say I was fond of the 2nd/4th/Foles for Sam nor his play in Philly.


Now if you are talking about what Roseman got in return for all the Chip guys... Yeah, bravo there.

 

[eaglesnut]

Really? That move was a key part of why Philly was a 7 win team last year. Honestly I can't say I was fond of the 2nd/4th/Foles for Sam nor his play in Philly.


Now if you are talking about what Roseman got in return for all the Chip guys... Yeah, bravo there.

The Eagles got Sam for a 2nd and moved him for a 1st and got 14 games out of him. Roseman doesn't have that chance without Chip's move. Maybe you could argue that he's worth more healthy than coming off an injury. I'd buy that.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

The Eagles got Sam for a 2nd and moved him for a 1st and got 14 games out of him. Roseman doesn't have that chance without Chip's move. Maybe you could argue that he's worth more healthy than coming off an injury. I'd buy that.

A 2nd, a 4th and Foles I believe was the price. And his cap hit. And they got 14 games of well below average QB play in the league overall as well for it which cost the Eagles multiple wins.

 

[Eugene Baker III]

LOL. It looked that way, but it is only one week, and the Eagles played the Browns. Let's wait a few weeks and check back, but....maybe?

What he ^ said..

NFC East
NFL standings



1


Giants
1
0
0
1.000
20
19
0-0-0
1-0-0
W1

2


Eagles
1
0
0
1.000
29
10
1-0-0
0-0-0
W1

3


Redskins
0
1
0
.000
16
38
0-1-0
0-0-0
L1

4


Cowboys
0
1
0
.000
19
20
0-1-0
0-0-0
L1

 

[eaglesnut]

A 2nd, a 4th and Foles I believe was the price. And his cap hit. And they got 14 games of well below average QB play in the league overall as well for it which cost the Eagles multiple wins.

Foles proved his value was 0. 14 games of below average play? Well now you are just making stuff up. My bad for responding to your delusions. Carry on.

 

[RobBase]

No, he won with Andy Reid's players, then traded them away and started losing.

He won with the players Andy Reid couldn't win with.

 

[RobBase]

How? Roseman had the personnel power in 2013/2014. Chip wrested that free in 2015, took it over and made his guy, Marynowitz the #2 there.

I'll give him credit as a coach, I have done that. Kinda similar to the turnaround Wayne Fontes got in Detroit.

But when he took over on the decisions with the roster, not many of them that you can say were good. In fact, even though it is early in, could you name a team with a worse 2015 as far as personnel moves?

He got Bradford's best season out of him. Jordan Matthews is his guy. You don't hire Chip Kelly out of Oregon and box him out of the draft decisions. He got the personal job because the guys he earned in with guys like JM.

Ya, he got of aging guys with massive contracts. Can't keep everyone forever. And what are those guys doing now in Washington and Buffalo? Not much.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Foles proved his value was 0. 14 games of below average play? Well now you are just making stuff up. My bad for responding to your delusions. Carry on.

lol his QBR was above... Foles, and that's it. Come on now, don't try calling Bradford last year average or better.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

He got Bradford's best season out of him. Jordan Matthews is his guy. You don't hire Chip Kelly out of Oregon and box him out of the draft decisions. He got the personal job because the guys he earned in with guys like JM.

Ya, he got of aging guys with massive contracts. Can't keep everyone forever. And what are those guys doing now in Washington and Buffalo? Not much.

Jordan was one of the guys he liked, but Roseman was the one with draft control.

Chip got his guy because Roseman agreed to get him. This is how a GM and coach work, coaches like lots of guys but the GM makes the call on which ones. Chip got Agholor because he was fully in charge and put his yes man in the personnel spot and no GM was there to counter. He traded up for Rowe in the 2nd round for a guy already sent packing (for a 4th round pick). He's not even dressing for his new team.


Yes McCoy only had 70 yards and a score the other day. Remind me how Kiko Alonso's season in Philly was... And what we did with 42 million dollars to replace him.

Name the personnel moves he made that helped Philly.

I'll get you started...

Byron Maxwell monster deal
Bradford as franchise QB deal
Kiko Alonso for McCoy
Not matching Maclin on his new deal
Huge Demarco Murray contract to replace McCoy
2015 draft (3 picks out of league, 2nd rounder doesn't dress and gone, 1st rounder was least productive WR in league)
Moved Evan Mathis
Made Bill Davis his defensive coordinator.



Bradford's best seasons were easily 2012 and 2013. Bradford was horrible in all the area's you need to win games last year (3rd down, red zone, 2 minute drill).




You can't have your cake and eat it too. If he made great moves, got a solid QB, etc when he became the de-facto GM before last season, then why did the team completely crumble under him when he was playing in a weak division and with an easier strength of schedule?




You know how bad he was with personnel.... Your brightest spot you keep hyping is Sam fucking Bradfords Eagles career and we only gave up a 2nd and a 4th for him.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And I'm not saying that the Jordan Matthews pick was Roseman's because I don't like Chip as a GM, it's because it was Roseman's.

2014 draft was NOT good overall. Marcus Smith in the first round, Huff in the 3rd, 4th round pick was a Bills practice squad guy the next year. 5th round pick was waived. I mean sure Matthews was a fine pick, but if you want to give that draft to Chip as well, it's not a good one.

I mean sure I could talk about how Riley Cooper was "his guy" and DeSean Jackson wasn't. But that was Roseman's decisions, not Chips to go through with that move.

 

[RobBase]

Jordan was one of the guys he liked, but Roseman was the one with draft control.

Chip got his guy because Roseman agreed to get him. This is how a GM and coach work, coaches like lots of guys but the GM makes the call on which ones. Chip got Agholor because he was fully in charge and put his yes man in the personnel spot and no GM was there to counter. He traded up for Rowe in the 2nd round for a guy already sent packing (for a 4th round pick). He's not even dressing for his new team.

Yes McCoy only had 70 yards and a score the other day. Remind me how Kiko Alonso's season in Philly was... And what we did with 42 million dollars to replace him.

Name the personnel moves he made that helped Philly.

I'll get you started...

Byron Maxwell monster deal
Bradford as franchise QB deal
Kiko Alonso for McCoy
Not matching Maclin on his new deal
Huge Demarco Murray contract to replace McCoy
2015 draft (3 picks out of league, 2nd rounder doesn't dress and gone, 1st rounder was least productive WR in league)
Moved Evan Mathis
Made Bill Davis his defensive coordinator.

Bradford's best seasons were easily 2012 and 2013. Bradford was horrible in all the area's you need to win games last year (3rd down, red zone, 2 minute drill).

You can't have your cake and eat it too. If he made great moves, got a solid QB, etc when he became the de-facto GM before last season, then why did the team completely crumble under him when he was playing in a weak division and with an easier strength of schedule?

You know how bad he was with personnel.... Your brightest spot you keep hyping is Sam fucking Bradfords Eagles career and we only gave up a 2nd and a 4th for him.

Like you said, Chip got his guys cause Roseman let him. Not Chip's fault for just doing what Roseman let him do. Chip is a great coach, did well in Philly, and deserved to stay. Even he agrees now that being both GM and HC in the NFL is too much of a work load.

 

[RobBase]

And I'm not saying that the Jordan Matthews pick was Roseman's because I don't like Chip as a GM, it's because it was Roseman's.

JM was 100% Chip's pick. You don't make a huge splash coach hire with one of the biggest names in college football, then handcuff him in his first draft. No Chip, no JM. Matthews was exactly the kind of guy Chip was looking for coming out of Oregon.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

JM was 100% Chip's pick. You don't make a huge splash coach hire with one of the biggest names in college football, then handcuff him in his first draft. No Chip, no JM. Matthews was exactly the kind of guy Chip was looking for coming out of Oregon.

No he was the guy Chip liked. He was Roseman's pick.

Here's the difference....

Matthews was Chips guy. Chip Told Roseman to spend their first round pick on him, Roseman as GM told him no. In the 2nd round Roseman told him that's where his value was and Philly got him there instead.

Same with Taylor Hart. Chip wanted him in the 3rd. Philly got him in the 5th because Roseman wouldn't budge on HIS picks (Hart's never played outside of special teams and is gone).

So instead of spending a 1st and 3rd on those two guys as Chips picks, Philly spent a 2nd and 5th as Roseman's.

2015 was the draft Chip could make whatever pick he wanted. Nelson Agholor in the first, Trading up for Rowe in the 2nd was CHIPS picks.





You are kinda picking what you like out of it too.


2014/15 drafts so far really underwhelming for Philly. But not Chip's fault because Roseman let him do those things... Chip gets the credit 100% for Matthews, but Roseman gets the blame for all the rest which didn't do well.

Chip gets a guy that the next regime trades, and that's Chip's pickup (even though he'd still be our QB for Chip). Reid gets a guy that Chip trades, and that's also Chips move if it worked out.

 

[RobBase]

No he was the guy Chip liked. He was Roseman's pick.

Matthews was Chips guy. Chip Told Roseman to spend their first round pick on him, Roseman as GM told him no. In the 2nd round Roseman told him that's where his value was and Philly got him there instead.

Guy/pick same thing. I'm not disputing this. Like I said, no Chip, No Jordan Matthews. That makes him Chips' guy.

My initial post:

I love Philly. They were a shit show until Chip Kelly showed up and helped install a winning attitude with back to back 10-6 seasons, and helped bring studs like Jordan Matthews to the team. He should have never been canned, but it's the Niners gain. Pederson should do a good job where Chip left off. Getting Schwartz as DC was the greatest under the radar move of the off season. Got them in both my FF leagues this year. They're gonna tear it up all year on D. If Wentz can do his part, they have as good a chance to win the East as anybody there.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I'm not disputing this. Like I said, no Chip, No Jordan Matthews. That makes him Chips' guy.

My initial post:

Seriously?

He liked lots of guys that Roseman didn't draft. Roseman is why Matthews was drafted in Philly. If Roseman said no, Matthews was elsewhere. End of story.

You can say he's the guy Chip liked... But I'm saying he was Roseman's pick. Chip only had control over the cuts.



But if you want to give it all to Chip what happens with the WR's.

1st round pick Agholor
3rd round pick Huff
Massive contract extension Riley Cooper
Send Desean Jackson and Maclin away for nothing.
Sign Brad Smith and Miles Austin.

These are the "other studs" you are talking about right?





Johnny Manziel may have been "Jerry Jones' guy" but since he isn't controlling the draft anymore, Manziel isn't in Dallas. Doesn't matter how much a guy who isn't running the draft likes someone. It's the guy who runs the drafts pick.

And if one losing season in the past 8 years under Reid means the "winning attitude" is gone and it's a "shit show"... then didn't Chip lose the "winning attitude" last year???

 

[RobBase]

Seriously?

He liked lots of guys that Roseman didn't draft. Roseman is why Matthews was drafted in Philly. If Roseman said no, Matthews was elsewhere. End of story.

Johnny Manziel may have been "Jerry Jones' guy" but since he isn't controlling the draft anymore, Manziel isn't in Dallas.

And if one losing season in the past 8 years under Reid means the "winning attitude" is gone and it's a "shit show"... then didn't Chip lose the "winning attitude" last year???

Fine. Give him zero credit. You Philly fans are one of a kind.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Fine. Give him zero credit. You Philly fans are one of a kind.

Oh my god. I gave him some credit for those moves.

I'm just saying that he a really shitty GM... A single player doesn't change that. And I don't care if he was a solid coach, if he wasn't willing to give up that GM role in Philly (he wasn't), it doesn't matter. Because he couldn't win with the guys HE picked.


You've spent post after post just bringing up 1 player. I don't care that Matt Millen felt Calvin Johnson was a stud. It's the overall that matters. And overall, Chip Kelly's first year is still by far his best, and his year he had GM duties the talent on the roster fell apart despite him spending like crazy.