Avengers 4: Endgame (2019)

[Clayton]

Falcon getting the shield with the movie timeline seems to be more symbolic than anything. There are comics where he has super strength but I think that ship sailed for the MCU.

It also wouldn't make any sense for Cap to give the shield to Bucky given the focus of the movies. I think they ended things in the most logical way possible.

 

[Clayton]

There are a lot of people speculating that Endgame actually has an Easter egg spoiler for Black Panther 2.

Spoiler: Speculation

They mention that there was an earthquake underwater and that they'll handle it by ignoring it but if the start of Phase 4 is a movie called 'Far From Home' then it wouldn't be too crazy to assume that a good portion of Black Panther 2 could end up being underwater in Atlantis with characters like Namor

 

[Godstree]

I never made any assumptions. I was pointing out who Pepper Potts is. And of course I know everyone who watches the movies don’t read the comics, hell I don’t read the comics I just know a lot about them and what happens. But that doesn’t mean that comics don’t exist and what happens in them don’t matter when they translate them to the big screen.



Who said anything about Falcon having super strength because he’s the new Captain America? Captain America is a persona it’s not based on who has super strength and who doesn’t.

I think you might have misunderstood who I was saying did the assuming. I wasn't saying you were assuming, the makers of the movie were assuming.

Pepper, you knew her name. I didn't. If it was said her name in the other movie I missed it.

Well if falcon is going to be fight super bad villains, he gonna have to have super strength or it ain't gonna work.

 

[Godstree]

There are a lot of people speculating that Endgame actually has an Easter egg spoiler for Black Panther 2.

Spoiler: Speculation

They mention that there was an earthquake underwater and that they'll handle it by ignoring it but if the start of Phase 4 is a movie called 'Far From Home' then it wouldn't be too crazy to assume that a good portion of Black Panther 2 could end up being underwater in Atlantis with characters like Namor

Should have listened to Black Widow.

 

[Battlelyon]

Worst Character In Avengers: Endgame Goes To (Spoiler)

 

[Clayton]

Worst Character In Avengers: Endgame Goes To (Spoiler)

Hawkeye stole his thunder, imo. From a movie perspective, you probably could've replaced Hawkeye with Hulk in almost every scene.

 

[Battlelyon]

Hawkeye stole his thunder, imo. From a movie perspective, you probably could've replaced Hawkeye with Hulk in almost every scene.

Yeah, Hawkeye really? Hulk is a much more important character

 

[B_dub]

Falcon getting the shield with the movie timeline seems to be more symbolic than anything. There are comics where he has super strength but I think that ship sailed for the MCU.

It also wouldn't make any sense for Cap to give the shield to Bucky given the focus of the movies. I think they ended things in the most logical way possible.

Exactly. And how many innocent people has Bucky killed? (Brainwashed or not) not really sure how you become Captain America after that resume.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

So, she can't directly travel faster than the speed of light. She uses jump points.

This is actually related to something you asked a while back in the Captain Marvel thread:



Jump points exist at specific locations in space. Captain Marvel and spaceships can't travel at lightspeed, not directly, but they can use jump points to instantaneously "jump" to other jump points, even if those other jump points are light-years apart in space.

However, again, jump points exist at specific locations in space. This is a significant drawback to them, as they don't let you go anywhere, but only to other jump points. So it's easy to get to places near jump points, but hard to get to places that are far away from jump points. This is where the lightspeed drive came in, and why it was so valuable: in the Captain Marvel movie, it would let the Skrulls flee to places far away from jump points, so that the Kree could not pursue them easily.

To use an analogy, think of jump points as train stations and the lightspeed drive as a car. Train stations are really useful for getting from one train station to another. But what do you do if the place you need to get to is far away from any train station? Well, you take the train to the nearest station, and then you drive the rest of the way in a car.

Ok, I understand how your breaking it down, but is it ever actually explained in any of the movies this way? From what I remember, every time they enter a jump point, they just seem to do it. Many times it occurs from leaving a planet (you can see it from the atmosphere or just outside of it).

It seems similar to other movies going into 'hyper drive' or whatever. You know, a ship was flying through space with the stars ahead of them then BOOM the stars are now streams of light as they are just moving so fast. That was how I always thought of the jump points. They always happened with spaceships so I looked at it like the MCU version of spaceships using their 'hyper-drives' to initate that level of velocity (willing to accept given movie history) and then BOOM, opens and goes through the jump point. A regular person flying through space... using jump points doesn't seem right to me. If it is explained in one of the 22 movies in such a way that does not limit it to some use of technology (i.e. hyper-drive/spaceships) I am willing to accept it. Without it, it just seems like fan-theory to accommodate missed/bad writing.


Separate issue, but what did you think about Thanos in Endgame? Am I alone in how I thought of him in this movie?

 

[BusSport]

Ok, I understand how your breaking it down, but is it ever actually explained in any of the movies this way? From what I remember, every time they enter a jump point, they just seem to do it. Many times it occurs from leaving a planet (you can see it from the atmosphere or just outside of it).

It seems similar to other movies going into 'hyper drive' or whatever. You know, a ship was flying through space with the stars ahead of them then BOOM the stars are now streams of light as they are just moving so fast. That was how I always thought of the jump points. They always happened with spaceships so I looked at it like the MCU version of spaceships using their 'hyper-drives' to initate that level of velocity (willing to accept given movie history) and then BOOM, opens and goes through the jump point. A regular person flying through space... using jump points doesn't seem right to me. If it is explained in one of the 22 movies in such a way that does not limit it to some use of technology (i.e. hyper-drive/spaceships) I am willing to accept it. Without it, it just seems like fan-theory to accommodate missed/bad writing.

It's not fan theory, but a standard trope of science fiction, which is why the movies don't bother to explain it in detail. Hyperdrives and jump drives are fundamentally different, and their use is not just in the MCU, but common in scifi. Three of the common ways to travel faster-than-light (FTL) in scifi, all of which have Wikipedia articles and function differently, are:

- warp drives (e.g. Star Trek) - these let you travel FTL anywhere in normal space

- hyper drives (e.g. Star Wars) - these let you travel FTL anywhere by transferring out of normal space into a different dimension called hyperspace that shortcuts distances

- jump drives (e.g. MCU) - these let you travel FTL, but only from jump point to jump point

Jump points, as implied by their name, are fixed, non-moving points in space. When a ship passes through them in the MCU, you can see the jump points depicted visually on screen as an array of hexagons. Near the beginning of Guardians of the Galaxy 2, the heroes have a discussion about how they have to get through an asteroid field in order to reach a jump point to get to Berhert, and after reaching that planet, Nebula has a line wherein she says, "Someone followed you through the jump point." Also, you might remember the scene wherein Rocket, Baby Groot, Yondu, and Kraglin get their faces cartoonishly distorted from hopping through a bunch of jump points in a row in order to get to Ego's planet.

Separate issue, but what did you think about Thanos in Endgame? Am I alone in how I thought of him in this movie?

I agree with you: I thought Thanos's portrayal in Endgame was disappointing compared to his portrayal in Infinity War.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

It's not fan theory, but a standard trope of science fiction, which is why the movies don't bother to explain it in detail. Hyperdrives and jump drives are fundamentally different, and their use is not just in the MCU, but common in scifi. Three of the common ways to travel faster-than-light (FTL) in scifi, all of which have Wikipedia articles and function differently, are:

- warp drives (e.g. Star Trek) - these let you travel FTL anywhere in normal space

- hyper drives (e.g. Star Wars) - these let you travel FTL anywhere by transferring out of normal space into a different dimension called hyperspace that shortcuts distances

- jump drives (e.g. MCU) - these let you travel FTL, but only from jump point to jump point

Jump points, as implied by their name, are fixed, non-moving points in space. When a ship passes through them in the MCU, you can see the jump points depicted visually on screen as an array of hexagons. Near the beginning of the Guardians of the Galaxy 2, the heroes have a discussion about how they have to get through an asteroid field in order to reach a jump point to get to Berhert, and after reaching that planet, Nebula has a line wherein she says, "Someone followed you through the jump point." Also, you might remember the scene wherein Rocket, Baby Groot, Yondu, and Kraglin get their faces cartoonishly distorted from hopping through a bunch of jump points in a row in order to get to Ego's planet.



I agree with you: I thought Thanos's portrayal in Endgame was disappointing compared to his portrayal in Infinity War.

Admittedly, I don't remember GOTG2 very well as I didn't like the villain, but that scene does sound familiar. Fair enough, I would have at least liked to have seen Captain Marvel carry them through then lol.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I re-watched Infinity War before seeing this one yesterday and got about half way through before I got a bit bored.

I don't think that's going to happen when I see this one again. Pretty fucking solid. Really liked Thor and Ant Man in this one. I did have a few issues with some of the stuff.

The Hulk was a bitch. Two of these movies and the Hulk does nothing but get his shit rocked by Thanos with one stone even though Thor basically one shots Thanos at the end of Infinity War. Didn't really care for that. Obviously Bruce Banner was important but I was really bummed about The Hulk.

Not sure when Pepper Potts learned to fight and fly around in that Iron Man suit. Maybe I missed something, but that was weird. And so was that scene when all the women just happen to land next to each and charge together. Didn't really make sense. Wasn't the Wasp supposed to be helping Ant Man get the time machine running at that point? She just had to run over for the big "girls unite" moment? Idk when they even needed that. The two people who come closest to fucking up Thanos in that fight were Captain Marvel and the Scarlet Witch. The women heroes in the MCU are generally pretty well done. Scene just seemed forced.

So Captain America went back to the 1940's as a 30 year old (at least) and then was still around in 2024? He was 110 (minimum) in that last scene? Fuck. Well I guess that's what the super serum does. Do you think he bought a bunch of stock in Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, and Facebook?

Kind of funny what they'r doing with Spiderman. I guess all his classmates of importance were part of the 50%? LOL. I guess that's what they gotta do though.

Overall top 3 MCU movie. This, Winter Solider and Civil War. I managed to avoid spoilers really liked the story of the movie. Going back in time and fucking around with stuff that had happened previously. Good shit.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Regarding the new captain America

Falcon takes over the role in the comics. Bucky does for a bit too.

It wouldn’t make sense for Thor to do it, he has no real connection to America.

I've heard that Falcon basically is the new Captain America. I'm no comics expert but that's always seemed weird to me. He doesn't have the serum strength, agility, and stamina of Cap. Wouldn't he be better off fighting as Falcon with all the shit he knows how to use? I'm assuming he starts fighting with the shield and stuff and that just seems like a bad idea considering Falcon has no real powers.

 

[Duffman]

I've heard that Falcon basically is the new Captain America. I'm no comics expert but that's always seemed weird to me. He doesn't have the serum strength, agility, and stamina of Cap. Wouldn't he be better off fighting as Falcon with all the shit he knows how to use? I'm assuming he starts fighting with the shield and stuff and that just seems like a bad idea considering Falcon has no real powers.

He still fights as Falcon(same wings, tools, gadgets, etc) he just has the shield with him, so mostly nothing about him will change other than his suit.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

He still fights as Falcon(same wings, tools, gadgets, etc) he just has the shield with him, so mostly nothing about him will change other than his suit.

Ah, alright. So he's actually more like.....Captain Falcon.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I've heard that Falcon basically is the new Captain America. I'm no comics expert but that's always seemed weird to me. He doesn't have the serum strength, agility, and stamina of Cap. Wouldn't he be better off fighting as Falcon with all the shit he knows how to use? I'm assuming he starts fighting with the shield and stuff and that just seems like a bad idea considering Falcon has no real powers.

Yeah that’s a good point.

I am also no comics expert, I just knew that it was taken from comics.

Not really sure if maybe he gets serum or something??

 

[calsnowskier]

Gotcha. I didn't even realize it was Falcon, I thought it was Black Panther, lol. Regardless I wasn't a huge fan of EndGame, I thought it was fairly lackluster. The previous Avengers movies were somewhat stupid in plot but they gave me a bunch of AWESOME action scenes and showed off each hero pretty damn well. This was just a disjointed mess.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

I re-watched Infinity War before seeing this one yesterday and got about half way through before I got a bit bored.

I don't think that's going to happen when I see this one again. Pretty fucking solid. Really liked Thor and Ant Man in this one. I did have a few issues with some of the stuff.

The Hulk was a bitch. Two of these movies and the Hulk does nothing but get his shit rocked by Thanos with one stone even though Thor basically one shots Thanos at the end of Infinity War. Didn't really care for that. Obviously Bruce Banner was important but I was really bummed about The Hulk.

Not sure when Pepper Potts learned to fight and fly around in that Iron Man suit. Maybe I missed something, but that was weird. And so was that scene when all the women just happen to land next to each and charge together. Didn't really make sense. Wasn't the Wasp supposed to be helping Ant Man get the time machine running at that point? She just had to run over for the big "girls unite" moment? Idk when they even needed that. The two people who come closest to fucking up Thanos in that fight were Captain Marvel and the Scarlet Witch. The women heroes in the MCU are generally pretty well done. Scene just seemed forced.

So Captain America went back to the 1940's as a 30 year old (at least) and then was still around in 2024? He was 110 (minimum) in that last scene? Fuck. Well I guess that's what the super serum does. Do you think he bought a bunch of stock in Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, and Facebook?

Kind of funny what they'r doing with Spiderman. I guess all his classmates of importance were part of the 50%? LOL. I guess that's what they gotta do though.

Overall top 3 MCU movie. This, Winter Solider and Civil War. I managed to avoid spoilers really liked the story of the movie. Going back in time and fucking around with stuff that had happened previously. Good shit.

Spoiler

Yeah, I wish Hulk was utilized in a better way, but I still thought the Dr. Hulk thing worked better than I had expected. I would have liked to see him as a bigger threat though.

I thought the same thing about Pots 'where did she learn to fight'. Totally agree on that girl power scene. Seemed forced and unnecessary. In that scene, Spiderman asks how are you going to get through them... dude, she just flew through a spaceship, why would this be more difficult? Completely unnecessary. Realistically, Scarlet Witch could've just held him there like she did eariler and had Marvel fly right through him, end of movie lol. Or Captain Marvel could have just flown around all of them lol. Just forced silliness in my opinion.

I thought Captain America went back to the 70's. So lets think about this for a second. He fought in WW2, Idk if the information is given, but lets assume he was born in 1920. Making him roughly 20-25 at the time that he became Captain America. Gets frozen in ice for 70 years. Technically making him 90-95. A few years past from that to Infinity War, let's say 93-98. We know 5 years passes after Infinity War, so somewhere around 98-105. Then he goes back to live with his girl (which is a whole other can of worms). I thought he went back to the 70's... to now would make him roughly 145-150. If he went back to the 40's, we'll say 1945, that would make him roughly 170-175 years old. I thought he was immune to aging. Not that he couldn't be killed, but that he wouldn't age. I also don't understand how being stuck in ice in the atlantic or wherever acts as a cyrogenic chamber. These aren't the same thing and this independent of the super serum, meaning the super serum doesn't make ice or cooling/freezing effects different.

Aside from that, the whole Captain America ending scene didn't make sense in general. They tried to explain that changing the past, wouldn't change their future and I got that, I liked it, it made sense. BUT it most absolutely WOULD change the future of that timeline they entered. Example: Say Thor goes back and kills Loki and Thanos as a baby. Sure the timetraveling Thor would still remember and it wouldn't change the experiences he had with them in his time, BUT it absolutely would mean that in THAT timeline he traveled to the first Avengers movie never would have happened for them that timeline, it also means that Thor likely would've never been cast out of Asgard in the first place. There is also the problem with finding their selfs in that timeline. So while Captain America went back to live with his girl, there is no reason that all the Avengers would end up in that SAME spot in a sort of merged timeline with the original Captain to even give the shield to Falcon. That Captain America in the original timeline is gone, he went back and never would've returned. The other timeline would have had 2 Captain Americas (this is also shown in the movie with the 2 Captain Americas fight scene). I hope that made sense.

I liked this movie as well, but the more I think about it, the more I actually like Infinity War more. 2 main reasons. The first obviously being timetravel. I am not a fan, the above paragraph is an indication to that, it NEVER seems to make sense. The second is Thanos. Read my previous post about this, but Thanos in Infinity War was a completely different character to me (a much better one) than the Thanos in Endgame.

Hope this isn't too long lol

 

[BusSport]

Just an interesting bit of trivia: Before the movie came out, Katherine Langford was reportedly cast in the movie, but then she never appeared in the actual movie.

Directors Anthony and Joe Russo just confirmed (per EW, Vulture) in an interview that they cut a scene in which, after Tony Snapped, she appeared to him in Soul World as an older version of his daughter Morgan Stark.

I hope we will get to see the deleted scene on the home video release.

Also, if both Thanos and Tony saw someone after they Snapped, did Bruce see someone, perhaps Natasha, when he Snapped as well? If so, I hope that is another deleted scene we will be able to see on the home video release.

 

[Blackshirts BLVD]

Just an interesting bit of trivia: Before the movie came out, Katherine Langford was reportedly cast in the movie, but then she never appeared in the actual movie.

Directors Anthony and Joe Russo just confirmed (per EW, Vulture) in an interview that they cut a scene in which, after Tony Snapped, she appeared to him in Soul World as an older version of his daughter Morgan Stark.

I hope we will get to see the deleted scene on the home video release.

Also, if both Thanos and Tony saw someone after they Snapped, did Bruce see someone, perhaps Natasha, when he Snapped as well? If so, I hope that is another deleted scene we will be able to see on the home video release.

I think that would have been a good touch in the film honestly.

I read how the Russos explained Cap wielding the hammer. Basically that he could also do it in Age of Ultron (hence it moving for Cap and no one else), but Cap didn't want to 'show up' Thor. Hence Thor shouting "I knew it" in Endgame.