Austin Davis experiment should be over now

[SJ76]

Look at what Stafford did today versus AZ on the road.


Don't assume I want anything but a W.

 

[Caynine29]

And I respect your opinion, I just don't think having Hill in there is giving us any insight into what and who we might be next year, where as Davis just might!

And I respect yours, as well... but to this point, like SJ just stated, the insight doesn't really matter. Neither is going to be the starter next year and you can pretty much take that to the bank.

All that matters from here on out is surviving the rest of the season.

 

[shopson67]

Exactly

Maybe the Lions should bench Stafford since he lost to the Cards and did nothing against them.

Stafford hasn't given the opposition 6 free TDs.

 

[Vitamike]

Hekker was signed as a UDFA.

Still Sneads guy and that he was an UDFA makes the point even greater, doesn't it shops?

 

[Vitamike]

The defense was outstanding.
Greg Z was outstanding.
Mason was solid.
The Oline was solid!

Hill dink and dunked. The TD that he did have was thrown behind Britt when he caught it for the TD. All we need is a game manager at QB. That's what Hill did.

But if you think we won this game because of Hill you are loco. The defense held the best offense in the NFL to 1 TD all game.

You can't say that RamsFan

We won't know.

Just like we will never know if Hill would've played better than Davis against those tough defenses he had to face.

What I do know is the D came to play today and the OL actually played like an NFL caliber OL versus a high school freshman one

The Rams offense dominated the game in terms of time of possession. Hill was able to keep drives alive, did not take a bunch of sacks, moved well 'inside' the pocket and kept 3rd down and distances manageable and most of all did not turn the ball over.

All of these things kept the defense fresh, alive and in the game! Also allowed the Rams to stay with the run throughout the game which helped control the time of possession but more important allowed the Rams offensive line to get into some run blocking and not expend all their energy pass blocking all day long.

Good QB play as opposed to poor QB play effects so many aspects of the game.

Again, I would have really like to see Davis continue to develop but I was willing to take my lumps to get him there. He has the skills to be a good NFL QB but not sitting on the bench.

Yes, I am riding the fence on this one but like I've always said, it's not my job to lose and in that regard, Hill gives us the best opportunity to win today! Davis may very well be our best opportunity to win next year.

 

[SJ76]

The Rams offense dominated the game in terms of time of possession. Hill was
able to keep drives alive, did not take a bunch of sacks, moved well 'inside'
the pocket and kept 3rd down and distances manageable and most of all did not
turn the ball over.

All of these things kept the defense fresh, alive
and in the game! Also allowed the Rams to stay with the run throughout the game
which helped control the time of possession but more important allowed the Rams
offensive line to get into some run blocking and not expend all their energy
pass blocking all day long.

Good QB play as opposed to poor QB play
effects so many aspects of the game.

O-line kept Hill upright yesterday. Mason moved the chains as well. Hill wasn't under a lot of heat and yeah his dink and dunk worked because of it. You can't tell me the O-line was that good versus AZ.. AZ defense is awesome.

And when we face another awesome defense and our O-line struggles, it would be better to have a more mobile QB. The thing with Davis is, he needs to learn when to throw it away AND he has been holding onto to the ball a bit at times. But you have to attribute some of that to solid defense as well.

 

[SJ76]

The biggest thing I see with our OC on offense, is with a pocket QB: Hill and Bradford - I see the dink and dunk a lot. We go deep downfield 1-2 times a game. Hill takes a few more chances than Bradford, but with Davis being more mobile - he seems to take a lot more chances.

Now we liked it early because it worked and we finally saw a QB with nuts, and it was against some decent defenses, but lately against some of the better defenses Davis got burnt when he let it fly downfield. Except for the San Fran game.. Davis managed a good game there and didn't turn it over on the road versus a good D.

I'll go back to my original question.. Did Fisher think the Rams were coming out of AZ and San Fran both with road wins? I don't know 1 team in the league that could do that.

But for now, I say let Hill play and let Davis watch, learn and maybe the game will slow back down for him. And HOPE the O-line can continue to block well for Hill because he's going to need it.


Pay attention down the road to how the O-line and Hill play versus a top 5 defense though. That will tell you a lot more.

 

[Vitamike]

O-line kept Hill upright yesterday. Mason moved the chains as well. Hill wasn't under a lot of heat and yeah his dink and dunk worked because of it. You can't tell me the O-line was that good versus AZ.. AZ defense is awesome.

And when we face another awesome defense and our O-line struggles, it would be better to have a more mobile QB. The thing with Davis is, he needs to learn when to throw it away AND he has been holding onto to the ball a bit at times. But you have to attribute some of that to solid defense as well.

When a lot of folks on here SJ were talking about Hill's mobility issues in comparison to Davis, I predicted he would get sacked less.

Now Denver has a pretty good defense but for arguments sake, we will soon enough have a comparable game within reason. Like yesterday, in the Dome (Huge difference I know) we will face the same AZ front. When you control the game like Hill did yesterday and sustain drives, you get guys into rhythms in run blocking and rushing. Now you can say it was the other way around but I believe in Fisher system Veteran play at QB leads to good play with decent talent on offense.

That is what we saw yesterday, that's what we will continue to see from this offense and when you control the clock a kick ass defense like we have can stay fresh and go after it all day long!

That said, I want Davis in there because he has the talent just not the experience but how else do you get experience?.

If we kept Davis in there all season, he too could be that guy providing Veteran play for the Rams for years to come.

Like I've said in other posts on these boards, I think Davis is better in the red zone than Hill but hope that as long as Hill is in there, he will continue to get better from working red zone drills like our previous QB starter did.

 

[Vitamike]

The biggest thing I see with our OC on offense, is with a pocket QB: Hill and Bradford - I see the dink and dunk a lot. We go deep downfield 1-2 times a game. Hill takes a few more chances than Bradford, but with Davis being more mobile - he seems to take a lot more chances.

Now we liked it early because it worked and we finally saw a QB with nuts, and it was against some decent defenses, but lately against some of the better defenses Davis got burnt when he let it fly downfield. Except for the San Fran game.. Davis managed a good game there and didn't turn it over on the road versus a good D.

I'll go back to my original question.. Did Fisher think the Rams were coming out of AZ and San Fran both with road wins? I don't know 1 team in the league that could do that.

But for now, I say let Hill play and let Davis watch, learn and maybe the game will slow back down for him. And HOPE the O-line can continue to block well for Hill because he's going to need it.


Pay attention down the road to how the O-line and Hill play versus a top 5 defense though. That will tell you a lot more.

I don't think Fisher's decision to change QB's were a result of an expectation of the outcomes of these games rather an expectation of play at the QB spot.

If it was, going 1-1 in those games would of probably kept Davis in the starting QB role.

 

[SJ76]

The O-line and Mason controlled that game yesterday Vita, not Hill. That's why we dominated time of possession. Look at the protection and look at how many carries Tre had yesterday. The pocket did not collapse nearly as much as it did against AZ. That's huge.

Mason had twice as many carries yesterday as he did against AZ.

Call it coaching, stout AZ run D or whatever you want.. But when you run the ball like that, it helps a QB tremendously. Bottom line, the O-line dominated the line of scrimmage for once. That was the difference.

 

[Retroram52]

I agree on the O-line beginning to develop starting the same five guys in their respective slots. Saffold and Robinson are providing a huge left side and they are working well together. Wells is reducing his errors. The rush is coming over Joseph and Barksdale's side. Barksdale was reilable and conistent but in the last couple of weeks against stout defenses he and Joseph have both faltered.

Yesterday, the sacks came form the right side except for the missed assignmnet by Robinson in the second half that got Hill sacked. That will change. When the O-line plays like yesterday, we can establish an offensive rhythm that has been mentioned. Like the defense, I see us getting better on O and at some point, it would be helpful for the team in the long run to get Davis in there to continue his development.

 

[Vitamike]

The O-line and Mason controlled that game yesterday Vita, not Hill. That's why we dominated time of possession. Look at the protection and look at how many carries Tre had yesterday. The pocket did not collapse nearly as much as it did against AZ. That's huge.

Mason had twice as many carries yesterday as he did against AZ.

Call it coaching, stout AZ run D or whatever you want.. But when you run the ball like that, it helps a QB tremendously. Bottom line, the O-line dominated the line of scrimmage for once. That was the difference.

Don't miss the point SJ.

By not taking sacks and throwing incompletes all over the field the running game gets on track mainly because we sustained drives. As good as we were rushing the ball yesterday, we only had a .08 yards per carry average gain yesterday than in the Arizona game, that is a about 2.5 feet more per carry on average.

So where does the advantage come in play? By good decision making from the QB spot. Getting those positive yards early in the series on throwing downs as opposed to zero or negative yards.

Also making quick decision from the pocket gives those big offensive linemen a break trying to hold up pass blocking while the QB with wheels is scrambling trying to make a play and by the time the fourth quarter rolls around they are gassed.

Also, when QB play keeps the down and distance in manageable situations, a 4 ypc rush can sustains your drives and keeps your offensive line in rhythm IMO.

When you are constantly needing to battle with 3nd and 14 due to a 4 yard rush on 1st down and an 8 yard sack on second down, Hekker has a career day.

 

[Caynine29]

The biggest thing I see with our OC on offense, is with a pocket QB: Hill and Bradford - I see the dink and dunk a lot. We go deep downfield 1-2 times a game. Hill takes a few more chances than Bradford, but with Davis being more mobile - he seems to take a lot more chances.

Personally, I didn't see this constant dink-and-dunk you're referring to. From what I saw, Hill took just as many shots down field as I've gotten used to seeing Davis take and the stats (I know you hate them, but I'll only bring 'em out this once. Lol) bear it out, as Hill averaged 7.6 yards per throw, to Davis' 7.00. Not to mention, the Broncos are sporting the #5 defense in the NFL right now, so they're certainly no slouch. I just wish Brian Quick was still on the field once Hill took over again. I think we'd have seen a lot more out of the offense yesterday.

Do I think Hill is some sort of savior? Lol.... No. Do I think Davis is a scrub? Of course not. But, I said it back in week 3 and I'll say it again today... I feel 1000% safer with Hill at the helm, than Davis. With Hill, I think that the odds that we'll finish any game and be able to say "it was the QB's fault we lost" go down exponentially.

 

[Retroram52]

Caynine, Tre Mason, Benny Cunningham, Tavon Austin, and our O-line torched the number one rushing defense yesterday for 125 yards. That D averages giving up only 67 yards per contest. It is a testament to the O-line beginning to click and those RBs we have especially Mason.

 

[Smed55]

SJ, first of all you said wait until Hill has to play against a top 5 defense, well Denver has a top 5 defense, that being said I think Denver obviously played their worst game of the year, although the Rams absolutely had something to do with that, but Denver did not play well at all.

For those of you that think Hill made his oline look good because of his wonderful decision making and getting rid of the ball quickly, that's a bunch of crap. His oline gave him all day to throw, his WR were open all day (I can't remember Ram WR ever being as open as they were in this game), his running game was the best it's been all year, and the defense didn't make him have to play from behind, and the Rams finally controlled the penalties, Hill didn't have to contend with the third and longs that Davis has had to contend with because of bonehead penalties. Let's face it, almost EVERYTHING went right for the Rams in this game, it's kind of hard to screw up when everything goes your way, even when you fumble and the ball just happens to bounce right under where you are falling, Dqvis didn't get that kind of bounce!

Hill did play a good game, but you're crazy if you don't think Davis could have done just as well in this game given all of those positives! I agree with SJ, they did go back to the dink and dunk more than they have been. Aside from the under thrown 63 yard TD to Britt, Hill was what 19-28 for 157 yards, those are dink and dunk stats! manning threw for almost 400 yards and he had a ton of drops by his receivers, I'm shocked we only gave up 7 points considering he threw for that many yards.


Also Kenny Britt has been invisible all year, this game he was getting open on a regular basis.

So, this was one game, a game where the Rams Played there best and got all the breaks finally, doesn't mean it will carry over into next week, it was one game!


I'm a Ram fan first, I never liked Bradford, but always hoped he would be the answer, he wasn't, I don't think Hill is the right way to go now either, so we win a few games, big deal, that's going to get us where, besides I think we can win a few games with Davis!

I'm not getting why some of you guys want Hill in there, supposedly because he gives us the best chance to win? I don't see it, I think it is setting us back even farther than we are. A lot of young QBs have struggled at the start of their careers, you let Davis start the rest of the year, we don't know maybe things start to click for him, maybe he starts to get it, maybe, just maybe he does play well enough to be our starting QB for next year and we can make our usual bad draft picks elsewhere him being on the bench we learn nothing!

 

[Caynine29]

Caynine, Tre Mason, Benny Cunningham, Tavon Austin, and our O-line torched the number one rushing defense yseterday for 125 yards. That D averages giving up only 67 yards per contest. It is a testament to the O-line beginning to click and those RBs we have especially Mason.

I don't think I've ever said otherwise.

Although I would say it's a testament to the O-Line clicking today. They're gonna have to have a couple more performances like that before I can trust them on a regular basis.

 

[Vitamike]

SJ, first of all you said wait until Hill has to play against a top 5 defense, well Denver has a top 5 defense, that being said I think Denver obviously played their worst game of the year, although the Rams absolutely had something to do with that, but Denver did not play well at all.

For those of you that think Hill made his oline look good because of his wonderful decision making and getting rid of the ball quickly, that's a bunch of crap. His oline gave him all day to throw, his WR were open all day (I can't remember Ram WR ever being as open as they were in this game), his running game was the best it's been all year, and the defense didn't make him have to play from behind, and the Rams finally controlled the penalties, Hill didn't have to contend with the third and longs that Davis has had to contend with because of bonehead penalties. Let's face it, almost EVERYTHING went right for the Rams in this game, it's kind of hard to screw up when everything goes your way, even when you fumble and the ball just happens to bounce right under where you are falling, Dqvis didn't get that kind of bounce!

Hill did play a good game, but you're crazy if you don't think Davis could have done just as well in this game given all of those positives! I agree with SJ, they did go back to the dink and dunk more than they have been. Aside from the under thrown 63 yard TD to Britt, Hill was what 19-28 for 157 yards, those are dink and dunk stats! manning threw for almost 400 yards and he had a ton of drops by his receivers, I'm shocked we only gave up 7 points considering he threw for that many yards.


Also Kenny Britt has been invisible all year, this game he was getting open on a regular basis.

So, this was one game, a game where the Rams Played there best and got all the breaks finally, doesn't mean it will carry over into next week, it was one game!


I'm a Ram fan first, I never liked Bradford, but always hoped he would be the answer, he wasn't, I don't think Hill is the right way to go now either, so we win a few games, big deal, that's going to get us where, besides I think we can win a few games with Davis!

I'm not getting why some of you guys want Hill in there, supposedly because he gives us the best chance to win? I don't see it, I think it is setting us back even farther than we are. A lot of young QBs have struggled at the start of their careers, you let Davis start the rest of the year, we don't know maybe things start to click for him, maybe he starts to get it, maybe, just maybe he does play well enough to be our starting QB for next year and we can make our usual bad draft picks elsewhere him being on the bench we learn nothing!

I guess I'm crazy then Smed!

And I'm someone who would rather have the youngster out there running our offense week in and week out.

I just don't think Davis has the experience to accomplish those little intangibles that make a huge difference in the way a game plays out.

Davis can learn from Hill in this in a number of ways and if he does next time come injury at the QB spot, if he's next in line, he will be better for it.

 

[Smed55]

I guess I'm crazy then Smed!

And I'm someone who would rather have the youngster out there running our offense week in and week out.

I just don't think Davis has the experience to accomplish those little intangibles that make a huge difference in the way a game plays out.

Davis can learn from Hill in this in a number of ways and if he does next time come injury at the QB spot, if he's next in line, he will be better for it.

But again, how are we suppose to know if Davis could possibly be our starting QB next year, if he's not playing? As far as the experience thing? Davis has started more games than Hill in the last 4 years!

You state that you would rather have Davis starting, but you seriously don't think we would have won that game yesterday with Davis in there? What would have been different, all of a sudden our running game wouldn't have worked? Our oline would have not blocked ? Receivers wouldn't have gotten wide open? The defense would have sucked and we would have been playing from behind? All of these things would have been different just because Davis had started?

 

[Caynine29]

For the record, I actually agree with Smed55's assertion that Davis very likely would have won this game as well. However... I still feel better about Hill starting than I do Davis. And yes... the experience matters. I realize Hill hasn't started a game in 4 years, but he's played in literally 5 times as many NFL games as Davis. Which means he's faced 5 times the live NFL defenses.

Hill knows the game. He's a true veteran and quite simply, he has more poise than Davis. And that's not a knock on Austin Davis, it's just the reality of a 9 year veteran vs. a 9 game *"rookie".

*Rookie is in quotes because I'm well aware Davis is in his 3rd year. I'm referring more to his actual game-time experience.

 

[Vitamike]

But again, how are we suppose to know if Davis could possibly be our starting QB next year, if he's not playing? As far as the experience thing? Davis has started more games than Hill in the last 4 years!

You state that you would rather have Davis starting, but you seriously don't think we would have won that game yesterday with Davis in there? What would have been different, all of a sudden our running game wouldn't have worked? Our oline would have not blocked ? Receivers wouldn't have gotten wide open? The defense would have sucked and we would have been playing from behind? All of these things would have been different just because Davis had started?

I never said that. You said I was crazy if "I didn't think Davis would have done as well as Hill" but winning is a different thing.

Davis very well could have won that game.

He is a gunslinger and has the ability to win games as easily as he can lose them at this point in his career.

That unknown is a scary thing for the conservative approach Fisher wants to establish and is probably the reason we see a more stable QB in the starting role.

I think Davis can be both.

The stable QB that Fisher needs and the gunslinger with wheels to make a play when needed.

I just don't think that Davis has enough experience to be that guy that Fisher can live and work with.

Jeff had a guy like this in the past who had both attributes in the name of 'Air McNair'. I use his nickname because as much as he was a threat with his wheels he still earned a nickname of Air McNair. Steve McNair was a pass first guy who had great escapeability that he used at precise times.

This is an important aspect that Davis needs to learn IMO. Extending plays can work against you by making your offensive line work much harder when they don't need to. Especially when you fail to convert a positive play.

So it's not like JF is against a guy like this as his starter, Fisher just needs to feel that he can count on his stater to make decisions that are going to put his offense in situations that will keep down and distances productive.

Those decisions that Davis has made at critical times in games, wins or losses, that has not only put JF at odds but the entire coaching staff.

Maybe that coaching staff and I are all crazy and guys with your opinion are right but it's not either your ass nor mine that's on the line, is it?