Are you ready?

[Kold]

Didn't the Lakers win 53 games the year before he joined them?

Yes they did, that was the year that Magic came back. However, I don't quite remember them being talked about as title favorites, as opposed to a team that had a couple of good players in van exel and eddie jones, and a team that was fun to watch

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Shaq did not even come close to leaving for greener pastures. Orlando had a future title team for YEARS to come, and Shaq left to go play with Nick Van exel, eddie jones, elden campbell etc.. Basically a team that was nowhere near title contention.
Shaq left Orlando, because they stupidly tried to lowball him on his contract, and Jerry west/Buss swooped in and backed up the brinks truck with a load of money. Shaq rightly, or wrong felt confident enough in his ability that he could win with just good enough players.

^^ This^^

I hate y'all.

But, this is a obvious example of a guy that was willing to build it from the ground up, instead of playing buddy ball.

He left a fucking Team that had recently been in the Finals, just like Lebron.

But, he didn't have a Kyrie or Love to help shoulder the load.

Nobody, but Jerry West, knew what Kobe would be.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Didn't the Lakers win 53 games the year before he joined them?

Yeah, they did.

Got put out in the 1st round by Houston.

 

[Kold]

....a d the Bulls.

The bulls moreso came along as a possibility when he got fed up with how organization. A lesser known story is that Kobe was actually traded to Detroit, but he vetoed it with his no trade clause. In the end, they ended up signing Derek Fisher that year, they got to the 5th or 6th seed and that held Kobe over until they got Pau, and the rest is history

 

[LAD]

Oh please. When I offer up a hypothetical that the Bulls aren't able to get Pippen you said "Jordan had nothing to do with that" as if I ever said he was. When I ask whether you think that Jordan would have stayed with the Bulls if they couldn't get past the 2nd round of the playoffs you say "I don't deal with hypotheticals" which is what most of these debates ARE!

Even the greatest players of all time can't win titles by themselves.

Wrong again. When I said Jordan had nothing to do with Pippen becoming a Bull it was in reference to LBJ PICKING to team up with Wade & Bosh - which is relevant to the topic of the creation of super teams, yes?

And I NEVER said "I don't deal with hypotheticals". I said we can't say for sure what they WOULD'VE done - but that we can only focus on what they HAVE done. I went on to give you a couple of examples of things that actually DID happen.

 

[LAD]

^^ This^^

I hate y'all.

But, this is a obvious example of a guy that was willing to build it from the ground up, instead of playing buddy ball.

He left a fucking Team that had recently been in the Finals, just like Lebron.

But, he didn't have a Kyrie or Love to help shoulder the load.

Nobody, but Jerry West, knew what Kobe would be.

And, to your point, Kobe wasn't even a starter on the team at that point.

 

[flyerhawk]

Wrong again. When I said Jordan had nothing to do with Pippen becoming a Bull it was in reference to LBJ PICKING to team up with Wade & Bosh - which is relevant to the topic of the creation of super teams, yes?

I asked you what do you think that MJ would have done had the Bulls NOT got Pippen? I didn't suggest that Jordan custom built his team.

And I NEVER said "I don't deal with hypotheticals". I said we can't say for sure what they WOULD'VE done - but that we can only focus on what they HAVE done. I went on to give you a couple of examples of things that actually DID happen.

Not sure what the difference is there but fine. James left Cleveland. MJ did not. That must mean MJ is a better human than James. Duly noted.

 

[Kold]

Yeah I get that. The Lakers chose Kobe or Shaq. If the Lakers chose Shaq over Kobe, what then?

Why do so many fans have to mythologize past players? Every player deals with different circumstances and acts according to those circumstances.

For me, it's hard to say that he definitely would of went to the clippers whom felt like a power play more than anything. Also, I can't know if Jerry Buss wouldn't have given him another great sales pitch to stay. Now hypothetically speaking, if Kobe did indeed leave, he would of pulled a Shaq, by leaving a title team for just a good team

 

[flyerhawk]

For me, it's hard to say that he definitely would of went to the clippers whom felt like a power play more than anything. Also, I can't know if Jerry Buss wouldn't have given him another great sales to stay. Now hypothetically speaking, if Kobe did indeed leave, he would of pulled a Shaq, by leaving a title team for just a good team

If we are only going to talk about past players that have won championships and compare them to Lebron, the entire hypothetical doesn't make sense.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Do you guys really think Jordan would have stuck on a shitty team (a la Lebron in Cleveland) his entire career?

Thats just nuts......Dont you think he had a hand in signing Kukoc, who by the way was the biggest international signing at the time....Or a hand in signing Rodman?

 

[shopson67]

You sure about that one? Fact - Both the '93 Suns and '98 Jazz had better records and home court vs. the Bulls. The Suns had the league MVP that year in Barkley.

I believe the Jazz were favored slightly, but not the Suns (Bulls were coming off back-to-back championships).

 

[shopson67]

Do you guys really think Jordan would have stuck on a shitty team (a la Lebron in Cleveland) his entire career?

Thats just nuts......Dont you think he had a hand in signing Kukoc, who by the way was the biggest international signing at the time....Or a hand in signing Rodman?

Star players didn't beg out for greener pastures; they pressured their GM to build around them. Lebron attempted to short-cut the system instead.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Star players didn't beg out for greener pastures; they pressured their GM to build around them. Lebron attempted to short-cut the system instead.

I think if Lebron could have gotten Wade and Bosh to come to Cleveland, or maybe even just Bosh considering he was the FA, he would have much rathered do all that in Cleveland

 

[LAD]

I asked you what do you think that MJ would have done had the Bulls NOT got Pippen? I didn't suggest that Jordan custom built his team.



Not sure what the difference is there but fine. James left Cleveland. MJ did not. That must mean MJ is a better human than James. Duly noted.

I get it, but I just thought that my side of the debate made it obvious that I don't think MJ leaves.

I don't think it necessarily means he's a better human, just maybe he has a different sense of competitiveness?

 

[shopson67]

If Michael Jordan had to face off against the mid-80s Lakers every year, would he have been undefeated in finals appearances?

Some of you guys seem to flip your arguments to suit your agenda.

Is that what you consider the equivalent of the Cavs opponents? That Mavs team was possibly the worst team to ever win a title.

 

[LAD]

Do you guys really think Jordan would have stuck on a shitty team (a la Lebron in Cleveland) his entire career?

Thats just nuts......Dont you think he had a hand in signing Kukoc, who by the way was the biggest international signing at the time....Or a hand in signing Rodman?

No on him having a hand in signing Kukoc. It was well known he & Pippen did NOT want management to sign him.

 

[shopson67]

Didn't the Lakers win 53 games the year before he joined them?

...and then hollowed out their roster to fit his huge salary (for the time).

 

[shopson67]

I'm not sure why MJ would have left the Bulls? Didn't they win the finals the last 6 years of his career with them?

Seriously? First he left to play baseball (2 seasons without titles), then left after the second three-peat when Krause pushed Phil Jackson out (and eventually joined the Wizards).

 

[flyerhawk]

Is that what you consider the equivalent of the Cavs opponents? That Mavs team was possibly the worst team to ever win a title.

I consider MJ and Lebron amazing all time great players. I can differentiate between their situations.

I don't care much for nostalgia coloring our memories. There were great players and teams in the 80s and 90s. Just like there are great players and teams today. Arguing that the 80s Lakers are far better than the 2017 Warriors seems silly to me because it is seems so preposterous. The Warriors won 73 games last year and dumped Harrison Barnes in favor of one of the 4 best players in basketball today. That would be like Magic going to the Celtics in 85.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seriously? First he left to play baseball (2 seasons without titles), then left after the second three-peat when Krause pushed Phil Jackson out (and eventually joined the Wizards).

So when did have any pressure to leave the Bulls? He retired after the 2nd repeat.