Are you ready?

[bksballer89]

Magic played 3 seasons after FA was introduced.



Well modern FA restricts players from leaving in their first 7 years. By MJ's 7th year, he won a title. If Lebron wins a title in his 7th year, you think he leaves the Cavs?

I just don't get this belief that players back then were nobler. MJ and Magic were already on GREAT teams. Why would they want to leave?

You think someone like George Gervin wouldn't have left and gone to a power house if that option was available?

The super stars of the 80s and 90s for the most part WON championships. The ones that didn't did try to chase titles. But the problem is that they either did it too later or they couldn't get enough other talents on the team to challenge for rings.

I really when people bring up that player A never left his team when comparing Lebron and other superstars to guys from the 80's and early 90's. It is such a stupid claim because free agency obviously isn't was what it is now.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Hesitant to call them a super team?

Kyrie was drafted #1, and has been a franchise player his entire career - even if he couldn't get them into the playoffs prior to LBJ. Kyrie has been called one of the best iso guys in the league along with the best closer in the league.

Kevin was drafted #5 and was the franchise player in Minny. Until recently some actually thought he was in the conversation for best PF in the league.

Both guys are in their prime at the moment, and you don't think they make up a super team???

Outside of this Finals, Im a big fan of Kyrie

Love, I sorta see like Bosh, stat stuffer as the centerpiece of a roster, but needs to be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a roster in order to win big in the league

 

[LAD]

Magic played 3 seasons after FA was introduced.



Well modern FA restricts players from leaving in their first 7 years. By MJ's 7th year, he won a title. If Lebron wins a title in his 7th year, you think he leaves the Cavs?

I just don't get this belief that players back then were nobler. MJ and Magic were already on GREAT teams. Why would they want to leave?

You think someone like George Gervin wouldn't have left and gone to a power house if that option was available?

The super stars of the 80s and 90s for the most part WON championships. The ones that didn't did try to chase titles. But the problem is that they either did it too later or they couldn't get enough other talents on the team to challenge for rings.

I think the question should be: do you think MJ leaves Chi if he doesn't win after 7 years.

MJ apparently wasn't on a great team in the beginning. As already pointed out - it took him 7 years along with the other "great" teams falling off before he started to win. So, I'm not sure why this is part of your supporting factors of why you think the super stars in the previous era weren't noble.

Kobe is another example. He didn't leave LA to team up with Melo in Denver, or Wade in Miami, right? He hung around & waited (even though he did get impatient after several years passed) for his FO to find the right guys. He didn't try to play GM & start recruiting guys while vacationing with them.

 

[LAD]

Outside of this Finals, Im a big fan of Kyrie

Love, I sorta see like Bosh, stat stuffer as the centerpiece of a roster, but needs to be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a roster in order to win big in the league

I think he's an excellent closer & the Cavs' greatest asset in the regard. He has ice in his veins like MJ did.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Alonzo Mourning was traded.

Grant Hill was a sign and trade. So I guess we can go with this.

Dikembe really didn't his peak until he joined with the Hawks.

Webber was traded both to Bullets and then to the Kings.

The best example of a player leaving for greener pastures would be Shaq in 96. He definitely bailed on his team.

Webber exercised an option in his contract to become a free agent and forced the Warriors to sign and trade him to get something in return, just like Lebron did to the Cavs.

Had they not done it, he was gonna sign a 1 year deal to play buddy ball with Juwan Howard.

Webber exercised a one-year escape clause in his contract, stating he had no intention of returning to the Warriors. With few alternatives, Golden State agreed to a sign-and-trade deal, sending Webber to the Washington Bullets (renamed the Wizards in 1997) for forward Tom Gugliotta and three first-round draft picks.



Dikembe was an All star HIS ROOKIE Season in DENVER.

He was the cornerstone of the the 8th Seed DENVER Team that took out the #1 seed Sonics.

He made his 2nd All star team and won his 1st DPOY award .....you guessed it, in DENVER.

That might have been the beginning of his prime. But, it still makes him a significant player to switch teams.

Just not of the Lebron ilk.



Mourning is also in the same boat as Webber. He refused to reSign and forced his way to the Heat.

Well, maybe that makes him more like Carmelo and Harden.

On November 3, 1995, after Mourning rejected a contract extension offer worth an average of $11.2 million for seven years, the Hornets traded him, along with reserves Pete Myers and LeRon Ellis in exchange for Glen Rice, Matt Geiger, Khalid Reeves and a first-round pick in the 1996 NBA draft.[5

 

[flyerhawk]

I think the question should be: do you think MJ leaves Chi if he doesn't win after 7 years.

MJ apparently wasn't on a great team in the beginning. As already pointed out - it took him 7 years along with the other "great" teams falling off before he started to win. So, I'm not sure why this is part of your supporting factors of why you think the super stars in the previous era weren't noble.

Kobe is another example. He didn't leave LA to team up with Melo in Denver, or Wade in Miami, right? He hung around & waited (even though he did get impatient after several years passed) for his FO to find the right guys. He didn't try to play GM & start recruiting guys while vacationing with them.

I just find your argument weird. MJ won a title in his 7 year. If the Bulls never get Pippen and the Bulls are a really good 2nd round basketball team, does MJ, and his incredible desire to win, stay in Chicago?

Kobe was READY to leave LA but Shaq did instead.

 

[Kold]

Alonzo Mourning was traded.

Grant Hill was a sign and trade. So I guess we can go with this.

Dikembe really didn't his peak until he joined with the Hawks.

Webber was traded both to Bullets and then to the Kings.

The best example of a player leaving for greener pastures would be Shaq in 96. He definitely bailed on his team.

Shaq did not even come close to leaving for greener pastures. Orlando had a future title team for YEARS to come, and Shaq left to go play with Nick Van exel, eddie jones, elden campbell etc.. Basically a team that was nowhere near title contention.
Shaq left Orlando, because they stupidly tried to lowball him on his contract, and Jerry west/Buss swooped in and backed up the brinks truck with a load of money. Shaq rightly, or wrong felt confident enough in his ability that he could win with just good enough players.

 

[flyerhawk]

That might have been the beginning of his prime. But, it still makes him a significant player to switch teams.

Just not of the Lebron ilk.

Ok. I think the point, ultimately, is that players weren't any less likely to jump, it was just harder to do back then without the player taking a major haircut in salary.

 

[LAD]

I just find your argument weird. MJ won a title in his 7 year. If the Bulls never get Pippen and the Bulls are a really good 2nd round basketball team, does MJ, and his incredible desire to win, stay in Chicago?

Kobe was READY to leave LA but Shaq did instead.

And you're facts are WRONG. Kobe stayed because he always WANTED to be a Laker. It's the reason he told Charlotte he wouldn't sign with them when they drafted him. He only threatened to leave so that the FO would get him what he needed. Shaq left over money.

We don't know for sure if MJ leaves if he doesn't win titles. The Bulls getting Pippen had ZERO to do with Jordan. But what we do know is that he didn't leave, he eventually did win and that LBJ DID leave to form a super team.

 

[Wamu]

I think it's funny the only NBAer LeBron's compared to is the GOAT-MJ. MJ is comparable to NOBODY. Will this stupid shit ever end? And LeBron must really be an overrated NBAer since he's only compared to His Airness.

 

[flyerhawk]

Shaq did not even come close to leaving for greener pastures. Orlando had a future title team for YEARS to come, and Shaq left to go play with Nick Van exel, eddie jones, elden campbell etc.. Basically a team that was nowhere near title contention.
Shaq left Orlando, because they stupidly tried to lowball him on his contract, and Jerry west/Buss swooped in and backed up the brinks truck with a load of money. Shaq rightly, or wrong felt confident enough in his ability that he could win with just good enough players.

Didn't the Lakers win 53 games the year before he joined them?

 

[flyerhawk]

And you're facts are WRONG. Kobe stayed because he always WANTED to be a Laker. It's the reason he told Charlotte he wouldn't sign with them when they drafted him. He only threatened to leave so that the FO would get him what he needed. Shaq left over money.

We don't know for sure if MJ leaves if he doesn't win titles. The Bulls getting Pippen had ZERO to do with Jordan. But what we do know is that he didn't leave, he eventually did win and that LBJ DID leave to form a super team.

Ok. This conversation has clearly run it's course. When people pick and choose the hypotheticals they will accept, then the discussion has effectively ended.

 

[Kold]

I just find your argument weird. MJ won a title in his 7 year. If the Bulls never get Pippen and the Bulls are a really good 2nd round basketball team, does MJ, and his incredible desire to win, stay in Chicago?

Kobe was READY to leave LA but Shaq did instead.

The other suiter for Kobe was the clippers. Not quite a powerhouse. Jerry Buss talked him out of it, and itwas in that meeting where he told Kobe that he wouldn't pay an aging Shaq all that money that he demanded

 

[LAD]

Ok. This conversation has clearly run it's course. When people pick and choose the hypotheticals they will accept, then the discussion has effectively ended.

when people run out of supporting facts of a weak argument, such as yourself, that also plays a part.

 

[flyerhawk]

The other suiter for Kobe was the clippers. Not quite a powerhouse. Jerry Buss talked him out of it, and itwas in that meeting where he told Kobe that he wouldn't pay an aging Shaq all that money that he demanded

Yeah I get that. The Lakers chose Kobe or Shaq. If the Lakers chose Shaq over Kobe, what then?

Why do so many fans have to mythologize past players? Every player deals with different circumstances and acts according to those circumstances.

 

[LAD]

Yeah I get that. The Lakers chose Kobe or Shaq. If the Lakers chose Shaq over Kobe, what then?

Why do so many fans have to mythologize past players? Every player deals with different circumstances and acts according to those circumstances.

But, the one thing they all have in common is losing. Some just more than others.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Ok. I think the point, ultimately, is that players weren't any less likely to jump, it was just harder to do back then without the player taking a major haircut in salary.

Agreed.

 

[flyerhawk]

when people run out of supporting facts of a weak argument, such as yourself, that also plays a part.

Oh please. When I offer up a hypothetical that the Bulls aren't able to get Pippen you said "Jordan had nothing to do with that" as if I ever said he was. When I ask whether you think that Jordan would have stayed with the Bulls if they couldn't get past the 2nd round of the playoffs you say "I don't deal with hypotheticals" which is what most of these debates ARE!

Even the greatest players of all time can't win titles by themselves.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

The other suiter for Kobe was the clippers. Not quite a powerhouse. Jerry Buss talked him out of it, and itwas in that meeting where he told Kobe that he wouldn't pay an aging Shaq all that money that he demanded

....a d the Bulls.

 

[flyerhawk]

Agreed.

I honestly didn't think that was such a contentious point. But I guess some folks have axes to grind.