Aqib Talib: I don't see why Broncos can't repeat

[Broncos6482]

If you call Manning and Osweiler below average then so be it. Do you think that Cam Newton is below average?

It's not an opinion to say that last season, both Manning and Osweiler were below average qb's. That's just statistically a fact.

 

[Mondo Jay]

It is great to be on top of the mountain again. All the off season talk and keyboard experts all focused around predicting the demise or success of the Champions.

Gotta love it!

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Trent Dilfer.
Doug Williams.

Brad Frickin Johnson.

Not just playoffs, these guys won the Super Bowl.
Plenty of crap QB's can make the playoffs.

Tim Tebow beat the Steelers.

Here is my problem

People say 'Plenty of Crap QB's', but when this type of conversation takes place, its those names ^^^^^^ above, that always come up


The reason is because in the last 30 or so years, those guys make up most of the list of below average QB's that have made the playoffs/SB....Thats not a ringing endorsement of the belief that you can win big without a good/great QB

 

[Mondo Jay]

Can you name me a few, besides Tim Tebow? Actually IMO Tebow was an average QB, not a below average QB.

 

[Broncos6482]

Here is my problem

People say 'Plenty of Crap QB's', but when this type of conversation takes place, its those names ^^^^^^ above, that always come up


The reason is because in the last 30 or so years, those guys make up most of the list of below average QB's that have made the playoffs/SB....Thats not a ringing endorsement of the belief that you can win big without a good/great QB

You said you can't make the playoffs with a below average qb. When numerous examples are given of teams not just making the playoffs, but winning the Super Bowl with below average qb's, you try to change up your argument or redefine what a below average qb is.

The fact is, yes, you can make the playoffs and even win the Super Bowl with a below average qb. Doesn't mean it's easy, doesn't mean it's likely, but yes, it's possible.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

You said you can't make the playoffs with a below average qb. When numerous examples are given of teams not just making the playoffs, but winning the Super Bowl with below average qb's, you try to change up your argument or redefine what a below average qb is.

The fact is, yes, you can make the playoffs and even win the Super Bowl with a below average qb. Doesn't mean it's easy, doesn't mean it's likely, but yes, it's possible.

When it happens once or twice a decade, I think the statement "You cant win with below average QB play" is FAR more accurate than "You can win with below average QB play"......

What the Broncos are trying to do this season is have lightning strike twice for them.....

Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, last years' version of Peyton Manning, its no coincidence these guys didnt repeat

I respect what the Broncos did this past season, but it did take a million Steelers' injuries and an awful fumble for them to advance, mostly because of Peytons' play

Brady
Peyton
Eli
Ben
Flacco
Wilson
Rodgers
Brees

I think this is the list of QB's that have won SB's in the last 15-18 years

You see it as a coincidence that list of full of HOF'ers, borderline HOF'ers, and incompletes?

 

[Broncos6482]

When it happens once or twice a decade, I think the statement "You cant win with below average QB play" is FAR more accurate than "You can win with below average QB play"......

What the Broncos are trying to do this season is have lightning strike twice for them.....

Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, last years' version of Peyton Manning, its no coincidence these guys didnt repeat

I respect what the Broncos did this past season, but it did take a million Steelers' injuries and an awful fumble for them to advance, mostly because of Peytons' play

Brady
Peyton
Eli
Ben
Flacco
Wilson
Rodgers
Brees

I think this is the list of QB's that have won SB's in the last 15-18 years

You see it as a coincidence that list of full of HOF'ers, borderline HOF'ers, and incompletes?

I'm not disputing any of that. It's hard enough to repeat, and with Denver's qb situation it's going to be near impossible.

The main point I disagree with The Oldtimer's assertion that you can't even make the playoffs with a below average qb. That's just patently untrue, as it happens quite frequently, and even this most recent season 3 teams made the playoffs with below average qb's.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I'm not disputing any of that. It's hard enough to repeat, and with Denver's qb situation it's going to be near impossible.

The main point I disagree with The Oldtimer's assertion that you can't even make the playoffs with a below average qb. That's just patently untrue, as it happens quite frequently, and even this most recent season 3 teams made the playoffs with below average qb's.

Oh, i thought you were yelling at me!!!!!!!!

Anyway, yeah, you can make it for sure....Ive always labelled guys like Alex Smith and Andy Dalton, as "Low Ceiling" guys.......They wont prevent a team from a 10-12 win season, but its gonna take a near miracle for them to win big in the postseason, they just aren't capable of matching the scoreboard when they run into the big boy QB's that they inevitably lose to every time

 

[Broncos6482]

Oh, i thought you were yelling at me!!!!!!!!

Anyway, yeah, you can make it for sure....Ive always labelled guys like Alex Smith and Andy Dalton, as "Low Ceiling" guys.......They wont prevent a team from a 10-12 win season, but its gonna take a near miracle for them to win big in the postseason, they just aren't capable of matching the scoreboard when they run into the big boy QB's that they inevitably lose to every time

My bad, I quoted you and I thought I was quoting Oldtimer.

 

[cdumler7]

My bad, I quoted you and I thought I was quoting Oldtimer.

I've gone back a few years now and almost every year around 3 teams make it with QB's that at least QB Rating wise finished bottom half of the league. So about 25% of teams making the playoffs every year are with below average QB play. Most of those teams don't win the Super Bowl of course as usually they do run into a more well-rounded team but making the playoffs isn't as difficult as some are making it sound.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

All ive taken from this conversation is that Tom Brady still sucks

 

[Mondo Jay]

awful fumble

I prefer to look at that as a "great defensive play".

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I am not all that confident in Denver repeating, and the making the playoffs themselves is kind of questionable with the division amongst other AFC hopefuls being problematic. Historically, at least in the past 30 years or so, even great defenses need roughly average or better QB play to consistently be contenders. There are exceptions of course, but there really aren't that many. For every team with Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez that goes deep in the playoffs, there's a Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassel, or Stanton flopping around in the boat.

It suspiciously looks like a hot hand fallacy (or maybe that's just my Red colored glasses showing) to assume Denver wins 11-12 games again- even if the defense is the exact same as last year; or even better. Then again, maybe they'll defy conventional wisdom again, we'll see. Seattle had a great defense last year- and imo a top 5 QB; they went [10-6]. The margin is that thin- and I don't trust Sanchez, Kaep, or insert draft pick here to significantly change the needle when it comes to the QB position in Denver.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Oldtimer's assertion t

Waste of time trying to refute OT's solid logic. Same dude that wondered why Michael Brown's body wasn't charged with a crime for stealing cigars (Ferguson's Gentle Giant)


As soon as he realizes his waffle-iron isn't his laptop, I am going to get it with both barrels!

 

[SonnyCID]

I am not all that confident in Denver repeating, and the making the playoffs themselves is kind of questionable with the division amongst other AFC hopefuls being problematic. Historically, at least in the past 30 years or so, even great defenses need roughly average or better QB play to consistently be contenders. There are exceptions of course, but there really aren't that many. For every team with Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez that goes deep in the playoffs, there's a Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassel, or Stanton flopping around in the boat.

It suspiciously looks like a hot hand fallacy (or maybe that's just my Red colored glasses showing) to assume Denver wins 11-12 games again- even if the defense is the exact same as last year; or even better. Then again, maybe they'll defy conventional wisdom again, we'll see. Seattle had a great defense last year- and imo a top 5 QB; they went 9-7. The margin is that thin- and I don't trust Sanchez, Kaep, or insert draft pick here to significantly change the needle when it comes to the QB position in Denver.

10-6

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

I prefer to look at that as a "great defensive play".

Yo momma wears Army boots!!!

 

[Broncos6482]

I am not all that confident in Denver repeating, and the making the playoffs themselves is kind of questionable with the division amongst other AFC hopefuls being problematic. Historically, at least in the past 30 years or so, even great defenses need roughly average or better QB play to consistently be contenders. There are exceptions of course, but there really aren't that many. For every team with Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez that goes deep in the playoffs, there's a Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassel, or Stanton flopping around in the boat.

It suspiciously looks like a hot hand fallacy (or maybe that's just my Red colored glasses showing) to assume Denver wins 11-12 games again- even if the defense is the exact same as last year; or even better. Then again, maybe they'll defy conventional wisdom again, we'll see. Seattle had a great defense last year- and imo a top 5 QB; they went 9-7. The margin is that thin- and I don't trust Sanchez, Kaep, or insert draft pick here to significantly change the needle when it comes to the QB position in Denver.

All of this is pretty fair, I think. I think everyone automatically dismissing Denver because of their huge question mark at qb are just as naive as those that assume they won't miss a beat. I think their defense will still be a top 5 unit, and I do think they can get better qb play then they got last year, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a better team than last year. They had a lot of breaks go their way to get to 12 wins, so it's certainly possible that a few of those games swing the other way this year, and Denver ends up in the 9-7 range despite still having a top defense and improved qb play.

 

[cdumler7]

I am not all that confident in Denver repeating, and the making the playoffs themselves is kind of questionable with the division amongst other AFC hopefuls being problematic. Historically, at least in the past 30 years or so, even great defenses need roughly average or better QB play to consistently be contenders. There are exceptions of course, but there really aren't that many. For every team with Trent Dilfer and Mark Sanchez that goes deep in the playoffs, there's a Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassel, or Stanton flopping around in the boat.

It suspiciously looks like a hot hand fallacy (or maybe that's just my Red colored glasses showing) to assume Denver wins 11-12 games again- even if the defense is the exact same as last year; or even better. Then again, maybe they'll defy conventional wisdom again, we'll see. Seattle had a great defense last year- and imo a top 5 QB; they went 9-7. The margin is that thin- and I don't trust Sanchez, Kaep, or insert draft pick here to significantly change the needle when it comes to the QB position in Denver.

Actually Seattle went 10-6. They started out the year 0-2 and had to fight their way back.

I do agree the Broncos can't expect to have similar QB play and expect similar results. They won the most games in NFL history for one season of games decided by 7 points or less. So they have to get more production from the offense even if the defense is as good as last year. I would also point out though that they had a ridiculous number of offensive turnovers. They were tied for 3rd in most give aways in the NFL with 31. If they can hold onto the ball on offense that alone could improve the team greatly.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Actually Seattle went 10-6. They started out the year 0-2 and had to fight their way back.

I do agree the Broncos can't expect to have similar QB play and expect similar results. They won the most games in NFL history for one season of games decided by 7 points or less. So they have to get more production from the offense even if the defense is as good as last year. I would also point out though that they had a ridiculous number of offensive turnovers. They were tied for 3rd in most give aways in the NFL with 31. If they can hold onto the ball on offense that alone could improve the team greatly.

Yep, my mistake about Seattle's record. I don't think 10-6 changes the overall point so as to dismiss it either, however. 10-6 definitely is still capable of missing the playoffs for instance in the AFC. While it's probably true Denver won't give the ball away at comical rates as they were last year, they were towards the tops in takeaways which traditionally hasn't really held steady regardless of the quality of the defense (outside of forced fumbles; and obviously return rates from said fumbles are statistically irregular and depend on where the fumble is) so that may (or may not; maybe they get very unlucky or lucky for instance) actually offset each other for the most part. I tend to think Denver will be above average anyways in takeaways because there's really no reason to think Denver won't force quite a few fumbles with the secondary and passrush working in concert with each other.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Actually Seattle went 10-6. They started out the year 0-2 and had to fight their way back.

I do agree the Broncos can't expect to have similar QB play and expect similar results. They won the most games in NFL history for one season of games decided by 7 points or less. So they have to get more production from the offense even if the defense is as good as last year. I would also point out though that they had a ridiculous number of offensive turnovers. They were tied for 3rd in most give aways in the NFL with 31. If they can hold onto the ball on offense that alone could improve the team greatly.

Mr. Buttfumble isn't exactly known for holding onto the football. So, if he ends up Denver's starting QB (gawd have mercy on Denver fan's souls) you may be longing for last years bad give away numbers.