Another great game by Alex

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't think you fundamentally understand my point. Defenses aren't allowing that type of play to happen pre-snap. They're also not putting themselves in those situations by blitzing because Alex Smith has handled it. Look at his passing rating against blitzes.

So you're not seeing many hot reads like the one to Morgan in the Eagles game. If that play happens on the 20 yard line he probably takes it 80 yards. Defenses aren't exposing themselves to those types of plays. They are sitting in the box actively defending short to medium routes and are not worried about anything deep.

I asked this before in a different thread, but when has Crabtree ever been hit in stride in space this year? Don't say that he hasn't been getting open, because he has. He may not have the explosiveness, but he hasn't been given a chance to show that. And yes he has made several great catches with high passes.

Braylon Edwards had the highest reception average in the league last year. I simply don't buy for a second that he's not a break away threat. How many games has he played this year? Your judging him off only a handful of games.

Yeah, I don't think it's the skill players that have reduced our big plays. Gore is the least dynamic, and he's had several 50+ yarders (though, to be fair, those used to by 70+ TDs). Edwards and Davis are both big-play threats for their positions, but Edwards has been injured most of the season and we haven't been using Davis down the seam as much, which was his go-to play over the past two years. I think Crabtree could make some big plays if, as said, Smith was hitting him in stride or throwing accurately down the field.

We haven't really needed to open up the offense must this year. I'm hoping that once we clinch we'll do some experimenting on offense.

 

[MW49ers5]

Compared to all those other receivers who have developed chemistry with Alex Smith?

...Crimsoncrew, as usual, you are wandering aimlessly, try to stay focused. The comparison you are citing is irrelevant. My comment is about Crabtree's ability to develop chemistry as it relates to making the GB WR squad, not a comparison of his ability to develop chemistry vs. "all those other receivers".

So, just stop with the straw man BS and try to focus on what is being said and not on how you can skirt the issue. Besides, I am pretty if you were to compare the chemistry developed between Smith and Davis, Walker and Morgan (the other three receivers who were here when Crabtree arrived) he loses that comparison as well.

 

[MW49ers5]

I don't think you fundamentally understand my point. Defenses aren't allowing that type of play to happen pre-snap. They're also not putting themselves in those situations by blitzing because Alex Smith has handled it. Look at his passing rating against blitzes.

So you're not seeing many hot reads like the one to Morgan in the Eagles game. If that play happens on the 20 yard line he probably takes it 80 yards. Defenses aren't exposing themselves to those types of plays. They are sitting in the box actively defending short to medium routes and are not worried about anything deep.

I asked this before in a different thread, but when has Crabtree ever been hit in stride in space this year? Don't say that he hasn't been getting open, because he has. He may not have the explosiveness, but he hasn't been given a chance to show that. And yes he has made several great catches with high passes.

Braylon Edwards had the highest reception average in the league last year. I simply don't buy for a second that he's not a break away threat. How many games has he played this year? Your judging him off only a handful of games.

Storm, one pass that hit Crabtree right in the #'s and was dropped that would/could have gone for a huge gain was the one against Tampa Bay(?). Another circumstance where it appeared that Crabtree was the hot read, was against Cincy. Smith looked like he had a window but did not pull the trigger. Those are the only two I can think of off the top.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

Storm, one pass that hit Crabtree right in the #'s and was dropped that would/could have gone for a huge gain was the one against Tampa Bay(?). Another circumstance where it appeared that Crabtree was the hot read, was against Cincy. Smith looked like he had a window but did not pull the trigger. Those are the only two I can think of off the top.

Well shit, you got me there. Good call.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

...Crimsoncrew, as usual, you are wandering aimlessly, try to stay focused. The comparison you are citing is irrelevant. My comment is about Crabtree's ability to develop chemistry as it relates to making the GB WR squad, not a comparison of his ability to develop chemistry vs. "all those other receivers".

So, just stop with the straw man BS and try to focus on what is being said and not on how you can skirt the issue. Besides, I am pretty if you were to compare the chemistry developed between Smith and Davis, Walker and Morgan (the other three receivers who were here when Crabtree arrived) he loses that comparison as well.

See, there's a lot of personal attack, very little substantive argument here. Par for the course, and curious that you would call me out for BS. It's also interesting that you would keep it up after your little temper tantrum last week. Here I thought you'd ease up a bit after that embarrassing display. Silly me.

Smith's lack of chemistry with other receivers is entirely relevant because it bears on whether his lack of chemistry with Crabtree is because of Smith or because of Crabtree. In six and a half seasons, Smith has never developed chemistry with a WR. The closest thing he's had to chemistry with anyone has been throwing the seam route to Davis. But I don't think we can call that "chemistry." If Smith hasn't developed chemistry with any of the dozen or so starting WRs he's played with, arguing that his inability to do so with Crabtree is entirely or even primarily because of Crabtree is awfully dubious.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

See, there's a lot of personal attack, very little substantive argument here. Par for the course, and curious that you would call me out for BS. It's also interesting that you would keep it up after your little temper tantrum last week. Here I thought you'd ease up a bit after that embarrassing display. Silly me.

Smith's lack of chemistry with other receivers is entirely relevant because it bears on whether his lack of chemistry with Crabtree is because of Smith or because of Crabtree. In six and a half seasons, Smith has never developed chemistry with a WR. The closest thing he's had to chemistry with anyone has been throwing the seam route to Davis. But I don't think we can call that "chemistry." If Smith hasn't developed chemistry with any of the dozen or so starting WRs he's played with, arguing that his inability to do so with Crabtree is entirely or even primarily because of Crabtree is awfully dubious.

Smith had a nice little thing going with Antonio Bryant when he was here but freakin' Kwame Harris ruined about two thirds of those plays. I think part of the lack of chemistry has had to do with the parade of receivers, mostly mediocre, that have come through here in the past six seasons; not to mention the constant changing of OCs and the almost two seasons he missed with injury or sitting on the bench.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Smith had a nice little thing going with Antonio Bryant when he was here but freakin' Kwame Harris ruined about two thirds of those plays. I think part of the lack of chemistry has had to do with the parade of receivers, mostly mediocre, that have come through here in the past six seasons; not to mention the constant changing of OCs and the almost two seasons he missed with injury or sitting on the bench.

There are mitigating circumstances for Smith, but I can't help but wonder the extent to which we're talking about chemistry versus accuracy and anticipation. How much is chemistry really involved when Rodgers rolls out and guns it to Jordy Nelson 40 yards downfield? Or puts a ball where only his guy can get it?

I agree that Crabtree and Smith need to improve their chemistry. I'm just not certain that's all or even mostly on Crabtree. For that matter, since the Brady-Ochocinco comparison was made, I think chemistry is more important to Brady than it is to Rodgers, whose pure physical talent alleviates some of need for that. Regardless, it's a moot point and just a case of MW trying to stir the shit. Crabtree is a Niner for three more years.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

There are mitigating circumstances for Smith, but I can't help but wonder the extent to which we're talking about chemistry versus accuracy and anticipation. How much is chemistry really involved when Rodgers rolls out and guns it to Jordy Nelson 40 yards downfield? Or puts a ball where only his guy can get it?

I agree that Crabtree and Smith need to improve their chemistry. I'm just not certain that's all or even mostly on Crabtree. For that matter, since the Brady-Ochocinco comparison was made, I think chemistry is more important to Brady than it is to Rodgers, whose pure physical talent alleviates some of need for that. Regardless, it's a moot point and just a case of MW trying to stir the shit. Crabtree is a Niner for three more years.

If you are saying that Smith lacks anticipation and accuracy, for the most part, I agree. At times he looks very good but then that disappears. He does seem to be improving his rapport with Crabtree though and that could be because he's finally getting to work with him. Crabtree has never attended a training camp or played in an exhibition game where they could work on things. That makes it tough. Sadly though, because he has worked hard, Alex Smith is not the answer for this team.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

If you are saying that Smith lacks anticipation and accuracy, for the most part, I agree. At times he looks very good but then that disappears. He does seem to be improving his rapport with Crabtree though and that could be because he's finally getting to work with him. Crabtree has never attended a training camp or played in an exhibition game where they could work on things. That makes it tough. Sadly though, because he has worked hard, Alex Smith is not the answer for this team.

I've supported Smith as much as most, but he struggles with consistency and his physical skills are somewhat limited - not to say they aren't good enough to be a solid or even good QB, but I don't know that he can be a great one.

There's also no doubt that Crabtree's absence from TC has hurt his chemistry with Smith. However, Smith's best chemistry with a WR has probably been last year toward the end of the season with Crabtree and probably from this point on with Crabtree (we'll see, but this week they seemed to be doing well). Bryant is the only other guy who is even in the conversation. And I can't say that other QBs need good chemistry as much as Smith does. As said, it's all probably moot, but I think Crabtree would put up pretty good numbers with a QB like Rodgers.

 

[Flyingiguana]

See, there's a lot of personal attack, very little substantive argument here. Par for the course, and curious that you would call me out for BS. It's also interesting that you would keep it up after your little temper tantrum last week. Here I thought you'd ease up a bit after that embarrassing display. Silly me.

Smith's lack of chemistry with other receivers is entirely relevant because it bears on whether his lack of chemistry with Crabtree is because of Smith or because of Crabtree. In six and a half seasons, Smith has never developed chemistry with a WR. The closest thing he's had to chemistry with anyone has been throwing the seam route to Davis. But I don't think we can call that "chemistry." If Smith hasn't developed chemistry with any of the dozen or so starting WRs he's played with, arguing that his inability to do so with Crabtree is entirely or even primarily because of Crabtree is awfully dubious.

how do u develop chemistry with a wr who drops balls that go right into his hands? no qb would trust that wr

 

[MW49ers5]

Smith's lack of chemistry with other receivers is entirely relevant because it bears on whether his lack of chemistry with Crabtree is because of Smith or because of Crabtree. In six and a half seasons, Smith has never developed chemistry with a WR. The closest thing he's had to chemistry with anyone has been throwing the seam route to Davis. But I don't think we can call that "chemistry." If Smith hasn't developed chemistry with any of the dozen or so starting WRs he's played with, arguing that his inability to do so with Crabtree is entirely because of Crabtree is awfully dubious.

Crimsoncrew, you have now wandered even further into the land of ridiculous, so please let me make this simple for you:

The following is my comment, the one you responded to, which has led us to this point:

"Storm, I agree with Edwards and Davis; However, Crabtree, today, would not even make the GB squad, he is far too undisciplined. Crabtree with Rodgers would be less effective than Ocho with Brady."

The following are GB's four WR's

#1 Greg Jennings
#2 Jordy Nelson
#3 James Jones
#4 Donald Driver

Which one of these four receivers do you think GB would trade for Crabtree?

There is no chemistry discussion to confuse you, just a straight forward question needing only a straight forward answer.

If you pick any one of those four, then we disagree - case closed.

On the other hand,

If you choose none of the above, then we agree - case closed.

 

[sayheykid1]

Crimsoncrew, you have now wandered even further into the land of ridiculous, so please let me make this simple for you:

The following is my comment, the one you responded to, which has led us to this point:

"Storm, I agree with Edwards and Davis; However, Crabtree, today, would not even make the GB squad, he is far too undisciplined. Crabtree with Rodgers would be less effective than Ocho with Brady."

The following are GB's four WR's

#1 Greg Jennings
#2 Jordy Nelson
#3 James Jones
#4 Donald Driver

Which one of these four receivers do you think GB would trade for Crabtree?

There is no chemistry discussion to confuse you, just a straight forward question needing only a straight forward answer.

If you pick any one of those four, then we disagree - case closed.

On the other hand,

If you choose none of the above, then we agree - case closed.

What makes you think Jones and Nelson are better than Crabtree?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimsoncrew, you have now wandered even further into the land of ridiculous, so please let me make this simple for you:

The following is my comment, the one you responded to, which has led us to this point:

"Storm, I agree with Edwards and Davis; However, Crabtree, today, would not even make the GB squad, he is far too undisciplined. Crabtree with Rodgers would be less effective than Ocho with Brady."

The following are GB's four WR's

#1 Greg Jennings
#2 Jordy Nelson
#3 James Jones
#4 Donald Driver

Which one of these four receivers do you think GB would trade for Crabtree?

There is no chemistry discussion to confuse you, just a straight forward question needing only a straight forward answer.

If you pick any one of those four, then we disagree - case closed.

On the other hand,

If you choose none of the above, then we agree - case closed.

A few thoughts. First - and this is going to be tough for you, because it involves "facts" - GB has five WRs, not four. You're forgetting Randall Cobb.

Second, GB has five TEs, two more than most teams. Between those 10 receiver positions, I absolutely guarantee Crabtree would make the squad. Anyone who isn't an idiot - and yes, I realize this group does not include you - would realize the certainty of that.

Finally, even looking at the four guys you named, I would say only Jennings would clearly be ahead of Crabtree. Neither Jones nor Nelson has done much prior to this season despite every opportunity to do so. And Driver has clearly regressed this year. At this point, Crabtree would be fourth at worst, and very likely ahead of that.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

What makes you think Jones and Nelson are better than Crabtree?

What, actually back up his "opinion" with some sort of cogent argument or evidence? That's not MW's style.

 

[Flyingiguana]

why are jones and nelson better than crabtreee you ask? they run good routes and catch the ball. at this point jj slowkes was better than crabtree

 

[Crimsoncrew]

why are jones and nelson better than crabtreee you ask? they run good routes and catch the ball. at this point jj slowkes was better than crabtree

Hmmmmmmmm...

NFL.com news: Packers WRs hoping opponents don't cash in on dropped balls

Green Bay Packers receiver James Jones focuses on reducing dropped passes | Green Bay Press Gazette | greenbaypressgazette.com

James Jones has dropped 17 passes over the last two seasons.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com...rdy-Nelson-s-otherwise-solid-camp-performance

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8813&team=09&page=news

 

[sayheykid1]

why are jones and nelson better than crabtreee you ask? they run good routes and catch the ball. at this point jj slowkes was better than crabtree

How many routed have you seen Nelson run this year?

 

[clyde_carbon]

How many routed have you seen Nelson run this year?

Don't bother. Widow will try erect any and every excuse to pimp Smith - and that includes undermining our other players.

 

[sayheykid1]

I can't understand the massive hate for Crabtree by some folks here. If it is just more excuse making for Smith, I never understood that either.

 

[ViperVisor]

The hype on Crabtree was high. Need was desperate with the best WR yards total since Owens was a 36yo Isaac Bruce.

Standards are high based on what has been done as a 49er WR so that might be a thumb on the scale but so rarely have we seen a spark something special.

There have been about the same number in the 3 years as I have seen in highlights of what 32yo Steve Smith has done in 8 games.