Andrew Luck for Patrick Willis trade?

[tallglassofwater007]

If you could tell me Luck becomes as good a QB as Willis is a LB, then I would do it without thinking twice. Look what an elite QB does for a team... puts you in contention every single season. But for an unproven guy, nope. I believe Luck will be great, but not willing to give up the best player on our team and the face of the franchise for hoping.

 

[jordan20_3]

Well, here's my question. . .

It's the 1998 draft. Baltimore has the opportunity to trade Ray Lewis for the first overall pick and draft Peyton Manning. They also get to keep their own first round pick because all they have to give up is Lewis.

How does this change Baltimore's history? How many MLB could they have drafted that would have been able to give them similar results to Lewis? How have they done at QB at getting Peyton Manning results?

Is Ray Lewis more important to the Ravens success than Peyton Manning is to Indianapolis'? Please someone make this case.

They have both given there teams 1 superbowl win and a few AFC title games. Manning career is based on stats, Ray Lewis career is based on how he rallied other players around him to play great. I think they both have done equal but Manning has made his team more competetive each year because he was the QB.

 

[deep9er]

Good question, what if he's on the level of Matt Schaub or Matt Ryan??

Who's better out of those too?

tough call, really tough call? ok, not going to shirk the question.........

both Matt Schaub and Matt Ryan have a higher ceiling than Alex Smith, and i feel there's enough difference that we become legit SB contenders........for the next 10 years.

if alex smith is our QB for the next 10 years, we'll NEED to sustain a VERY GOOD defense and quality ST's.....just to compete for the NFC crown.

Willis is obviously a top player but his contribution doesn't make the difference in competing (serious contenders) for a SB next 10 years. Larry Grant filled in the last two games and there wasn't a BIG drop off. whereas you replace Alex with a Pro Bowl QB......BIG difference.

the ONLY thing against Luck is being unproven, notice no one is attacking his projection as one of the best QB prospects in history? no one is saying he can't read defenses, noodle arm, no leadership, weak conference, spread offense, etc.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Comparing Vernon Davis to Patrick WIllis is crazy. WIllis is the type of player who makes everyone around him better. Davis is just an above average Tight End with bad hands.

How does Willis make our DL better? Aldon Smith just had his best game of the season without Willis in the lineup.

 

[clyde_carbon]

PWillie is the heart and soul of the defense (the heart and soul of the team) and is generally considered one of the best defensive players in all of football.

Davis is a very good TE.

One plays a key position. One plays a nice position to have.

I would trade Davis for the #1 pick in a second. Equating the two is asinine.

So what's the threshold? What positions would you trade for the #1 pick?

Would you trade Rob Gronkowski for the #1 pick?

Since when is 3-4 ILB a "key position"?

 

[deep9er]

No. I will take the proven player over the unproven prospect every time. Luck might turn out to be a great QB or he may turn out to be completely average. We already know what Willis is.

Plus I think the team can upgrade the QB position without losing one of the best LBs in the game and captain of the defense.

ordinarily yes, take the proven player especially a perenial Pro Bowler.

the reason i'm for Luck is because he's not just the best QB in the draft, but in HISTORY. even if he doesn't become the best player in history, what are the odds he becomes a Leaf? most of you keep saying he could bust, yeah he could, but you're banking on that 5% chance.

Willis has played 5 seasons already and our window just opened. Luck will come in at the beginning of our window.......and keep it open for another 10 years.

 

[deep9er]

remove the names for second and ask each NFL team if they'd trade ANY of their players for the next NFL franchise QB? for the next Brady, Manning, or Rodgers?

how many teams would jump at the chance? the chance to make annual SB runs?


but we're understandably.............homers for Willis.

 

[clyde_carbon]

This is like saying you wouldn't trade Steve Nash for #1 pick in the 2003 NBA draft.

 

[sayheykid1]

ordinarily yes, take the proven player especially a perenial Pro Bowler.

the reason i'm for Luck is because he's not just the best QB in the draft, but in HISTORY. even if he doesn't become the best player in history, what are the odds he becomes a Leaf? most of you keep saying he could bust, yeah he could, but you're banking on that 5% chance.

Willis has played 5 seasons already and our window just opened. Luck will come in at the beginning of our window.......and keep it open for another 10 years.

I guess I understand why you would make the trade.
I see Luck as a good #1 prospect but not a can't miss all time great QB.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

I guess I understand why you would make the trade.
I see Luck as a good #1 prospect but not a can't miss all time great QB.

Me too.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Me too.

That's it right there. If you think that Luck is truly an elite QB prospect then you would do it, if you don't then you won't. That's the real discussion.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

That's it right there. If you think that Luck is truly an elite QB prospect then you would do it, if you don't then you won't. That's the real discussion.

That's not it though....it goes deeper. Even if I think Luck is an elite prospect, there's a difference between that and being sure he'll be great. And you'd better be sure you're trading for a great player if you're giving up Willis.

I think everyone gets pretty stuck on Boom or Bust type argument......what if he's just pretty good?

 

[clyde_carbon]

That's not it though....it goes deeper. Even if I think Luck is an elite prospect, there's a difference between that and being sure he'll be great. And you'd better be sure you're trading for a great player if you're giving up Willis.

I think everyone gets pretty stuck on Boom or Bust type argument......what if he's just pretty good?

What's pretty good? Romo? Roethlisberger? Schaub?

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Sure, those are all good names. I'd say Romo, Ben, Rivers, Eli are all roughly on the same 2nd tier......and all guys that wouldn't have been worth an HOF LB in his prime.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Sure, those are all good names. I'd say Romo, Ben, Rivers, Eli are all roughly on the same 2nd tier......and all guys that wouldn't have been worth an HOF LB in his prime.

It's hard to predict the Peyton Mannings, Drew Brees', Tom Bradys, and Aaron Rodgers'. These guy are elite QBs that really you can't gauge coming out. You can tell, however, who can be, at least, a good QB. I'm fairly confident that Andrew Luck will be, at least, a top-5 or 7 QB in the NFL when he's in his prime. I'd trade the #1 LB for the #5 or #6 QB.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

That's fair enough....I understand your point.

I was just thinking a little while back about how now the three best defenses I've seen have all been led by a dominant LB - Singletary, Ray Lewis and now Willis. As much praise as these guys get, I think their true, awesome contribution may even be a bit underrated.

And how that relates to the point in the other thread......maybe Justin Smith is more irreplaceable than Willis, but that's more a question of the Niners' depth and personnel than their respective talent. Willis will go to the pro bowl every year of his career, and there's a good chance he's still going to improve for the next 4 - 5 years....he's the driving force behind the D IMO.

 

[clyde_carbon]

That's fair enough....I understand your point.

I was just thinking a little while back about how now the three best defenses I've seen have all been led by a dominant LB - Singletary, Ray Lewis and now Willis. As much praise as these guys get, I think their true, awesome contribution may even be a bit underrated.

And how that relates to the point in the other thread......maybe Justin Smith is more irreplaceable than Willis, but that's more a question of the Niners' depth and personnel than their respective talent. Willis will go to the pro bowl every year of his career, and there's a good chance he's still going to improve for the next 4 - 5 years....he's the driving force behind the D IMO.

I'm not undermining what Willis is to this team. But I'm not passing on a legitimate pro bowl QB because of a 3-4 ILB.

 

[imac_21]

Why?

Because it chooses to ignore aspects that contribute to a player's success in the NFL to suggest that anyone can be a bust and there's a 50/50 chance.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

How does Willis make our DL better? Aldon Smith just had his best game of the season without Willis in the lineup.

His tackling and his coverage skills come to mind immediately......or did you think pass rushing was the only responsibility the D Line has.

 

[clyde_carbon]

His tackling and his coverage skills come to mind immediately.

How does Willis covering a TE help Justin Smith collapse the pocket?