America's Team Hate and Smacktalk thread

[Eastbay]

Nope, but I will stick by my proclamation that Dallas will never win a Super Bowl with Romo as the QB.

No the real question is... when did you accept Dallas would finish last this year??

They day they were mathmatecially eliminated, quite fasinating how a team who lost 7 straight stayed in it as long as they did. Indictment on the rest of the division IMHO......

 

[Manster7588]

They day they were mathmatecially eliminated, quite fasinating how a team who lost 7 straight stayed in it as long as they did. Indictment on the rest of the division IMHO......

Yep, I'd say the other teams lost the East more than the Skins won it. Won't be shocked if Washington is struggling at the bottom again in 16.

 

[Eastbay]

Wouldn't be"Manster7588, post: 7806677, member: 5750"]Yep, I'd say the other teams lost the East more than the Skins won it. Won't be shocked if Washington is struggling at the bottom again in 16.[/QUOTE]

Wouldnt hardly be shocking, back to the norm if anything. Will be interested to see who the new coaches will be in the division. I can see Shannahan getting a job & making a run @ Cousins if for no other reason than to run up the price...

 

[Earl Stevens]

Nope, but I will stick by my proclamation that Dallas will never win a Super Bowl with Romo as the QB.

No the real question is... when did you accept Dallas would finish last this year??

Yeah they probably won't with Romo. But that had more to do with the GM/Owner/Radio personality than it had to do with Romo. Romo would be, without question, the best QB in Washington history. And I guarantee you would not have made this proclamation at any point if he were the Redskins QB the past 9 years.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yeah they probably won't with Romo. But that had more to do with the GM/Owner/Radio personality than it had to do with Romo. Romo would be, without question, the best QB in Washington history. And I guarantee you would not have made this proclamation at any point if he were the Redskins QB the past 9 years.

Earl... I will put it like this.

Matt Stafford doesnt play for either of our teams... I dont think Detroit will win a Super Bowl with him.

Romo to me falls in that class of guys who will have great stats, but never the big dance. Yes I might be a bit biases because he is the Cowboys starter... but I do agree with you its not his fault, more so the environment he is in.

 

[fordman84]

You know me jarntt, I'm a facts guy...well here you go.

Kirk Cousins first year as the starting QB for the Washington Redskins season stats

543 attempts
379 completions
69.8 PCT
24 pass TD
11 INT
5 Rush TD
101.6 rating

Pretty good right?

I'll admit that is pretty good, but look at his home/away splits. he is a guy that feasted on easy competition at home and faltered on the road. Even with his last two road games boosting the numbers from where they were prior, his splits are crazy. He's like a hitter for the Rangers pre-center field renovation. His home opponents: MIA, STL, PHL, TPA, NO, NYG, DAL, BUF. Not a single playoff team faced at home, and he had stellar stats. Those numbers you
Home/ Road:
Rating = 107/87.7
TD's = 16/13
INT's = 2/9


So he showed a ton of progress late in the season, but I would still hesitate to throw big money at him after this year. Washington is in a terrible spot. Is KC the next Aaron Rogers like this years numbers suggest, or are you walking into another Flacco contract?

 

[fordman84]

Yep, I'd say the other teams lost the East more than the Skins won it. Won't be shocked if Washington is struggling at the bottom again in 16.

Look at the last 8 years for WAS. 2 NFCE division titles, and 6 NFCE last place finishes. They are the epitome of boom or bust in the East. I heard that and couldn't believe it. Every few years they pop up and do well, then regress the next year. Do they break that mode next year?

 

[cowboycolors]

its tough on cousins as the redskins already know they will have to overpay to keep him but that's just the way it is nowdays .
Our Romo Contract was terrible as some said when it was signed because of all the money at the end but that's the NFL today

 

[jarntt]

Now that I have your attention, here are the stats for Romo in his first year as the starting QB...not 2006 when he came in for an injured Bledsoe, but 2007 when he was named the starting QB.

520 attempts
335 completions
64.4 PCT
36 pass TD
19 INT
2 rush TD
97.4 rating

So, what is it you really hope? Of course as a Cowboy fan its failure, but the facts seem to show it might be anxiety. BTW, I've always been a Romo fan, even with all his turnovers early in his career.

I don't get your point. I said his numbers are pretty good. Have you read anything I said? There is enough there for Redskin fans to want to sign him long term and I certainly see enough as a Cowboy fan to want the Redskins to lock him up with a big contract. You want to compare him to Romo for some reason? OK, give him a Romo sized contract. PLEASE!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't get your point. I said his numbers are pretty good. Have you read anything I said? There is enough there for Redskin fans to want to sign him long term and I certainly see enough as a Cowboy fan to want the Redskins to lock him up with a big contract. You want to compare him to Romo for some reason? OK, give him a Romo sized contract. PLEASE!!!

UM... I like Kirk and all, but I think the days of a QB contract holding a team hostage for years are over in a general sense. And I would be highly pissed if the Skins gave Kirk a deal that there was no way out of short of cap suicide.

Now a deal like Tannehill, Kaepernick or Wilson got.. Im all for it. Since all three deals had/have out clauses that limit the teams liability in the event the guy doesnt pan out.

Then again I think in general the days of the QB contract that hamstrings the team are over. Hell even Brees who is due $30 million next year, The Saints do have options that dont involve going over the cap.

 

[jarntt]

UM... I like Kirk and all, but I think the days of a QB contract holding a team hostage for years are over in a general sense. And I would be highly pissed if the Skins gave Kirk a deal that there was no way out of short of cap suicide.

Now a deal like Tannehill, Kaepernick or Wilson got.. Im all for it. Since all three deals had/have out clauses that limit the teams liability in the event the guy doesnt pan out.

Then again I think in general the days of the QB contract that hamstrings the team are over. Hell even Brees who is due $30 million next year, The Saints do have options that dont involve going over the cap.

So let's say you give him a Tannehill deal. 2016 nice low cap hit and you decide he sucks and take the "out clause" so you don't pay those huge dollars down the road. You are caught holding the bag on a $18.5M cap hit in 2017 for a player not on your roster if you cut him before the 5th league day of the year and needing to get a new QB at a cost of??? If you do a post 6/1 cut it's still an $11.64 hit in 2017 and in 2018 it's another $10.4M hit...both years for a player no longer on your team. That doesn't hamstring the team?

You better guess right with QB...

 

[Sharkinva]

So let's say you give him a Tannehill deal. 2016 nice low cap hit and you decide he sucks and take the "out clause" so you don't pay those huge dollars down the road. You are caught holding the bag on a $18.5M cap hit in 2017 for a player not on your roster if you cut him before the 5th league day of the year and needing to get a new QB at a cost of??? If you do a post 6/1 cut it's still an $11.64 hit in 2017 and in 2018 it's another $10.4M hit...both years for a player no longer on your team. That doesn't hamstring the team?

You better guess right with QB...

Most of the QB Deals signed as of late are basically setup to have a two year window where the team takes on the brunt of the cap space eating money. So if Kirk has a rough 2016, sure it would suck to have to cut him in 2017 because then it would count as negative cap money. But realistically Tannehill signed a 5 year extension with a two year window. Anything after 2016 and they actually save cap space by releasing him. The Skins are NOT going to sign Cousins to a $100 million plus type deal that has to constantly be reworked to keep the team under the cap.

 

[jarntt]

Most of the QB Deals signed as of late are basically setup to have a two year window where the team takes on the brunt of the cap space eating money. So if Kirk has a rough 2016, sure it would suck to have to cut him in 2017 because then it would count as negative cap money. But realistically Tannehill signed a 5 year extension with a two year window. Anything after 2016 and they actually save cap space by releasing him. The Skins are NOT going to sign Cousins to a $100 million plus type deal that has to constantly be reworked to keep the team under the cap.

No one said he'd get $100M. You said it won't hamstring them. I'm saying it will. no team is dumb enough to give Cousins $100M I would hope. He's just not that good. My point is it WILL hamstring you if it doesn't work out. Also, $18.5M in one year for a guy off the team wouldn't just suck, it would suck real bad...so would still needing to get a QB

 

[Sharkinva]

No one said he'd get $100M. You said it won't hamstring them. I'm saying it will. no team is dumb enough to give Cousins $100M I would hope. He's just not that good. My point is it WILL hamstring you if it doesn't work out. Also, $18.5M in one year for a guy off the team wouldn't just suck, it would suck real bad...so would still needing to get a QB

The reality is, if you DONT expect a guy to be the answer for at least the next two seasons, you dont sign him period. And if we were considering say picking up a guy from another team, then yes I would tend to agree with you. But lets call it what it is. By now i think the Skins are fairly comfortable with what Kirk brings to the table. Lets just say i feel more comfortable with the resigning Kirk to a market deal than I would with them rolling the dice on a rookie, or whats likely to be available in FA.

 

[jarntt]

The reality is, if you DONT expect a guy to be the answer for at least the next two seasons, you dont sign him period. And if we were considering say picking up a guy from another team, then yes I would tend to agree with you. But lets call it what it is. By now i think the Skins are fairly comfortable with what Kirk brings to the table. Lets just say i feel more comfortable with the resigning Kirk to a market deal than I would with them rolling the dice on a rookie, or whats likely to be available in FA.

I don't disagree. My point all along was that is also what the other NFC East teams are hoping. Best case scenario for Wash and Cousins is an average NFL starting QB, right? But worst case is they hurt their cap for a couple of years, played a dud all year and still need a new QB...

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't disagree. My point all along was that is also what the other NFC East teams are hoping. Best case scenario for Wash and Cousins is an average NFL starting QB, right? But worst case is they hurt their cap for a couple of years, played a dud all year and still need a new QB...

Im willing to hedge my bet and say the Skins will also dig a little deeper and also resign McCoy with the intent of NOT going into the season with a Kirk or die mentality.

And lets be honest, the rest of the East is hoping we resign him and he totally sucks. Which I wouldnt expect any other sentiment.

And lets be honest... even if Kirk is consistently average over say 4 years, it does a lot more for the team as a whole than the prospect of still having the primary focus being.. .we need to FIND a franchise QB. I think Kirk ends up some where between Flacco and Eli. Not a world beater, but a QB you can win with if you put enough around him. And I would prefer that which allows the TEAM to build over a franchise type that without him on the field, you instantly become under dogs in every game.

 

[jarntt]

Im willing to hedge my bet and say the Skins will also dig a little deeper and also resign McCoy with the intent of NOT going into the season with a Kirk or die mentality.

And lets be honest, the rest of the East is hoping we resign him and he totally sucks. Which I wouldnt expect any other sentiment.

And lets be honest... even if Kirk is consistently average over say 4 years, it does a lot more for the team as a whole than the prospect of still having the primary focus being.. .we need to FIND a franchise QB. I think Kirk ends up some where between Flacco and Eli. Not a world beater, but a QB you can win with if you put enough around him. And I would prefer that which allows the TEAM to build over a franchise type that without him on the field, you instantly become under dogs in every game.

Totally agree with bolded. Disagree with underlined. Between Flacco and Eli??? Now you are talking $100M...

 

[Sharkinva]

Oh and BEST case for Washington is Kirk continues to develop and becomes more than average, worse case he regreses and we are screwt. Expected case, he is average to slightly above average, we arent chasing the QB dragon over the next 3-5 off seasons. And the team can actually use those higher draft picks and resources to address such things as youth on the D-line, competence in the secondary and depth across the board.

 

[jarntt]

Oh and BEST case for Washington is Kirk continues to develop and becomes more than average, worse case he regreses and we are screwt. Expected case, he is average to slightly above average, we arent chasing the QB dragon over the next 3-5 off seasons. And the team can actually use those higher draft picks and resources to address such things as youth on the D-line, competence in the secondary and depth across the board.

True. Wasn't fair for me to cap my "best case" scenario at average and use train wreck as worst case...

 

[Sharkinva]

Totally agree with bolded. Disagree with underlined. Between Flacco and Eli??? Now you are talking $100M...

I simply meant as far as his ability. Flacco would never have gotten that big a deal if he didnt already have a Ring. So I will throw this out there, if Kirk gets a $100 million dollar ring, the season ended in such a way where most other NFCEast fans are hoping we screw up in resigning him at that point.

Right now I would say 5 years, some where in the $80 million total range, with around $25 guaranteed would probably get it done, make both sides happy and leave both sides wiggle room.