All things offseason

[deep9er]

Highlighting the top-10 edge defenders expected to enter free agency | NFL Analysis | Pro Football Focus

IMO, we'll sign someone like #7, #8, or #9? With such a strong ER class and picking #2, we shouldn't overpay for one of the other guys. You alway over pay for FA's, but in this case we'd REALLY over pay.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Adam Schefter was on KNBR this morning. He was asked by the morning crew about the 49ers souring on Brown because of the latest DV report on Brown. Schefter was emphatic that there wasn't ever any real interest in Brown from anyone in 49ers mgmt. He said he often hears things off the record from FOs about players but nothing has come up about Brown. He suggested the only thing driving this are the stories from Kittle and Jerry Rice

 

[deep9er]

Because they are trading him the remainder of the signing bonus hits the cap this year that amount is almost as much as what he will make this season. His contract was scheduled to increase this season and next so the savings for the Steelers is minimal but the "dead cap" hits the Steelers cap not the team that trades for him.

I don't want to prolong this since its clear i'm not getting my points across. However, you're getting caught up in the Steelers position with AB. While i'm looking at his impact to the 49ers, because i only care about what happens to the 49ers.

Yes, the Steelers will face dead money if they trade AB. It is called dead money because he's currently a Steeler.
The 49ers do not take on dead money, but they do take on AB's cap hit per his contract. When you trade for a player, his contract comes with him.

You're taking the Steelers position and articles showing the Steelers point of view, and using it to "figure out" the impact to the 49ers. I suggest you just look at the 49ers position if they trade for AB? What happens to the 49ers cap if they trade for AB or any other play for that matter?

 

[deep9er]

Adam Schefter was on KNBR this morning. He was asked by the morning crew about the 49ers souring on Brown because of the latest DV report on Brown. Schefter was emphatic that there wasn't ever any real interest in Brown from anyone in 49ers mgmt. He said he often hears things off the record from FOs about players but nothing has come up about Brown. He suggested the only thing driving this are the stories from Kittle and Jerry Rice

The reason i kept on this AB topic is because it applies to ANY player we might trade for. To me, didn't see this AB trade happening from the get go.

 

[poewelch84]

I don't want to prolong this since its clear i'm not getting my points across. However, you're getting caught up in the Steelers position with AB. While i'm looking at his impact to the 49ers, because i only care about what happens to the 49ers.

Yes, the Steelers will face dead money if they trade AB. It is called dead money because he's currently a Steeler.
The 49ers do not take on dead money, but they do take on AB's cap hit per his contract. When you trade for a player, his contract comes with him.

You're taking the Steelers position and articles showing the Steelers point of view, and using it to "figure out" the impact to the 49ers. I suggest you just look at the 49ers position if they trade for AB? What happens to the 49ers cap if they trade for AB or any other play for that matter?

I know what they would be taking on his base salary increases so he'll cost upward of 21 or 22 million this season but unlike what you had posted before the dead money isn't on the 49ers cap because you didn't understand that I had to show the implications on the Steelers to show you the dead money was a cap hit for the Steelers not the team trading for him.

 

[deep9er]

I know what they would be taking on his base salary increases so he'll cost upward of 21 or 22 million this season but unlike what you had posted before the dead money isn't on the 49ers cap because you didn't understand that I had to show the implications on the Steelers to show you the dead money was a cap hit for the Steelers not the team trading for him.

i never said the 49ers are taking on the dead money, i never posted it.

No wonder we're going back and forth, you're thinking i posted something i never did.

 

[Pattersonca65]

The reason i kept on this AB topic is because it applies to ANY player we might trade for. To me, didn't see this AB trade happening from the get go.

I really didn't pay any attention to the topic here to be quite honest. Talk of him coming to SF was media hype in my opinion.

 

[poewelch84]

if the 49ers pay all of Garapollo's signing bonus in year 1 (front loaded), does the cap hit from his signing bonus go away in years 2-5? The answer is no, the signing bonus is pro-rated over 5 years. If the Steelers pay all of AB's signing bonus now, does his cap hit from the signing bonus go away for the rest of his contract? Again, the answer is no.



"There’s also the contract. If traded, the Steelers wipe a million off the books, but the 49ers are saddled with some $15 million+ per year contract for the next three years with bonuses and incentives per Over the Cap."


"Cap space to absorb a Brown contract isn’t an issue for the 49ers, fortunately. But there’s a likely bidding war that would ensue between any plausible Niners deal and others wanting to put Brown in their ranks.



The above are from two different articles, and both says "contract" which to me means base salary, signing bonus, roster bonus, ie everything. The first one even one says "bonuses and incentives". I did read the Steelers will actually pay the signing bonus, but the CONTRACT moves over to his new team. If the CONTRACT moves over to his new team, the new team takes on his cap hit including the signing bonus. The new team doesn't pay the signing bonus, but takes on the cap hit.

So unless you post your back-up showing otherwise, YOU are in fact wrong.

Unless I'm reading that wrong you are saying the signing bonus the Steelers have to pay and counts against their cap will in fact count against the new team which is wrong and what I've been saying all along.

 

[deep9er]

Negative
If Brown hits the open market, the 49ers would still have to come through with a big-money contract to prevent him from signing elsewhere. Currently, Brown is on the books for the Steelers to make $15.125 million this year, $11.3 million in 2020, and $12.5 million in 2021.


So it APPEARS his cap hit would be $15.125M against the 49ers cap, should he be traded. AB's contract comes along with him.

The 49ers won't pay all of this, but it still impacts the 49ers cap.

I continued this because it applies to any player we might trade for. At this, it is highly doubtful we trade for AB.

 

[Pattersonca65]

The 49ers waived Gilliam. I hated that signing in the first place. Awful pass blocker and soft. Waste of money

 

[poewelch84]

The 49ers waived Gilliam. I hated that signing in the first place. Awful pass blocker and soft. Waste of money

Not a surprise a late round pick or UDFA would be better use of a roster spot.

 

[deep9er]

Unless I'm reading that wrong you are saying the signing bonus the Steelers have to pay and counts against their cap will in fact count against the new team which is wrong and what I've been saying all along.

Yes, from what i'm gathing, this is how it works. If i'm incorrect, i'm open to any new article or explanation that makes sense?

The Steelers will pay most of it because it is written in to AB's contract, some kind of language where this much is due by this date. AFTER trading AB, the Steelers then apply the 'dead money' rules. The dead money calculations is then applied to their cap alone.

You don't mix what happens to the Steelers, with what happens to the 49ers. The trade with the 49ers would occur BEFORE the Steelers apply the 'dead money' rules.

When that trade is made, the player and his contract comes over to the 49ers. The 49ers then have their own cap implications from his contract, nothing to do with the Steelers. You simply apply his contract amounts to the 49ers cap. the 49ers aren't paying it or not most of it), but the cap hit applies.

You're using the Steelers dead money implications, and connecting it to the 49ers cap implications. You think the Steelers will take the cap hit and therefore the 49ers don't. That is incorrect, how can the 49ers not have a cap hit?

 

[poewelch84]

Yes, from what i'm gathing, this is how it works. If i'm incorrect, i'm open to any new article or explanation that makes sense?

The Steelers will pay most of it because it is written in to AB's contract, some kind of language where this much is due by this date. AFTER trading AB, the Steelers then apply the 'dead money' rules. The dead money calculations is then applied to their cap alone.

You don't mix what happens to the Steelers, with what happens to the 49ers. The trade with the 49ers would occur BEFORE the Steelers apply the 'dead money' rules.

When that trade is made, the player and his contract comes over to the 49ers. The 49ers then have their own cap implications from his contract, nothing to do with the Steelers. You simply apply his contract amounts to the 49ers cap. the 49ers aren't paying it or not most of it), but the cap hit applies.

You're using the Steelers dead money implications, and connecting it to the 49ers cap implications. You think the Steelers will take the cap hit and therefore the 49ers don't. That is incorrect, how can the 49ers not have a cap hit?

I really can't spell it out more clearly. I've stated from the get go that by trading him the Steelers take on the dead cap hit that money is all theirs no difference if they trade or cut him they pay that bonus and the new team is completely clear of the money nearly every article I've read has stated this. The new team only covers his base salary.

 

[poewelch84]

Pierre Garcon's option was not picked up, this isn't shocking at all.

 

[deep9er]

I really can't spell it out more clearly. I've stated from the get go that by trading him the Steelers take on the dead cap hit that money is all theirs no difference if they trade or cut him they pay that bonus and the new team is completely clear of the money nearly every article I've read has stated this. The new team only covers his base salary.

I'm talking about cap hit to the 49ers, not who pays AB for 2019? I already posted a lot of times already, i know the Steelers will pay AB's signing bonus per his contract. that is for his 2019 season contract terms.

Do you even know how the cap works? that what you actually pay and your cap hit isn't the same thing?

What is the cap hit to the 49ers, answer this clearly? If no answer, then no problem, this can be the last post on this topic.

 

[poewelch84]

The 49ers would pay his 2019 salary but the signing bonus owed would fall on the Steelers and would be a cap charge to the Steelers. Brown's base salary would be a little more 12.5, around 11.5 million and 12.5 million over the next three years but I do believe the 2.5 million roster bonus would fall on the Niners for this season if the trade happens by the third day of the new league year.

 

[deep9er]

The 49ers would pay his 2019 salary but the signing bonus owed would fall on the Steelers and would be a cap charge to the Steelers. Brown's base salary would be a little more 12.5, around 11.5 million and 12.5 million over the next three years but I do believe the 2.5 million roster bonus would fall on the Niners for this season if the trade happens by the third day of the new league year.

You didn't answer the question. You keep citing the Steelers cap situation over and over. Answer the question without mentioning the Steelers, because it has nothing to do with the Steelers. It has only to do with AB's contract for 2019, which would come over to the 49ers.

What is AB's cap hit against the 49ers for 2019? Not next three years, but 2019? You touched on roster bonus, but what about base salary and signing bonus, how does this impact the 49ers cap for 2019?

You say i'm wrong so you must have a basis for saying it?

 

[poewelch84]

You didn't answer the question. You keep citing the Steelers cap situation over and over. Answer the question without mentioning the Steelers, because it has nothing to do with the Steelers. It has only to do with AB's contract for 2019, which would come over to the 49ers.

What is AB's cap hit against the 49ers for 2019? Not next three years, but 2019? You touched on roster bonus, but what about base salary and signing bonus, how does this impact the 49ers cap for 2019?

You say i'm wrong so you must have a basis for saying it?

I listed his salary for the next three years try reading you are wrong and you have been wrong his signing bonus doesn't come with him it stays with the Steelers, I can't not mention that because you can't seem to get that through your thick skull.

 

[deep9er]

I listed his salary for the next three years try reading you are wrong and you have been wrong his signing bonus doesn't come with him it stays with the Steelers, I can't not mention that because you can't seem to get that through your thick skull.

Just because you say it doesn't mean its true. I can say things too correct?

Anyway, here is a NEW article i just read:

Trade, cut or keep Antonio Brown: Explaining the Steelers' options for 2019 offseason

The answer to the question is:

A team that traded for Brown would get him at cap costs of $15.125 million in 2019, $11.3 million in 2020 and $12.5 million in 2021. None of that is guaranteed. The team would get one of the top wide receivers in the NFL at a cost of $12.975 million per year with no guarantees.


How did they arrive at $15.125 Million? Look at this article:

Antonio Brown

Look at the line for his 2019 cap hit and see the prorated signing bonus of $3.8 million. There, not only am i saying it, but just proved it. The signing bonus WILL apply to whatever team gets him.

Your confused because your trying to connect the Steelers dead money. Dead money only applies to the Steelers, not to his new team. His yearly cap hit is set by his contract soon as the contract is signed. So his new team receives his contract and hence cap hit.

Who has the thick skull?

 

[poewelch84]

Just because you say it doesn't mean its true. I can say things too correct?

Anyway, here is a NEW article i just read:

Trade, cut or keep Antonio Brown: Explaining the Steelers' options for 2019 offseason

The answer to the question is:

A team that traded for Brown would get him at cap costs of $15.125 million in 2019, $11.3 million in 2020 and $12.5 million in 2021. None of that is guaranteed. The team would get one of the top wide receivers in the NFL at a cost of $12.975 million per year with no guarantees.


How did they arrive at $15.125 Million? Look at this article:

Antonio Brown

Look at the line for his 2019 cap hit and see the prorated signing bonus of $3.8 million. There, not only am i saying it, but just proved it. The signing bonus WILL apply to whatever team gets him.

Your confused because your trying to connect the Steelers dead money. Dead money only applies to the Steelers, not to his new team. His yearly cap hit is set by his contract soon as the contract is signed. So his new team receives his contract and hence cap hit.

Who has the thick skull?

You do I stated their is a bonus due by the third day of the new league year which increases his salary for 2019 the Steelers will trade him by then so that money would fall in New team. All that is left is roster bonuses which he doesn't get if he isn't on the roster so they aren't completely guaranteed like the signing bonus. Try reading.