Alex Smith MVP?

[clyde_carbon]

I still don't understand the infatuation this board has with Smith.

The real MVP of that team is Jamaal Charles, who's on pace to touch the ball 392 times this season. But I'm sure Andy Reid wants no part of that strategy and would like to spread the ball out more. It'll catch up to you offensively when your RB has more targets/catches than your #1 WR 6 games into the season.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

I still don't understand the infatuation this board has with Smith.

He's probably the most-popular, and certainly most-followed, non-Niner in the league among our fanbase. He was the #1 topic among Niner fans for the last 8 years by far, probably the most-discussed Niner in history. It'll fade, but he's still a significant figure in Ninerland.

 

[Robotech]

He's probably the most-popular, and certainly most-followed, non-Niner in the league among our fanbase. He was the #1 topic among Niner fans for the last 8 years by far, probably the most-discussed Niner in history. It'll fade, but he's still a significant figure in Ninerland.

And people like to use Alex Smith when they are criticizing Kaepernick. The Alex talk is gonna be here as long as Kaepernick is our QB, which I hope is for a long time.

 

[Robotech]

I still don't understand the infatuation this board has with Smith.

People just can't move on. Kaep will have to win a Super Bowl or two to get acceptance from the Smith loyalists.

 

[purguy12]

Some times wins have to mean something. Im not saying he is an MVP im saying he is in the Top 5. No one besides Manning and maybe Brees is having a great year. Brady so so year for his standards and no big time RBs putting up crazy stats and Graham having a good year just went for 0 catches this last week. No one in the world had KC at 6-0 and alot of the credit goes to the coaching staff, Smith and the D.

 

[erckm510]

Some times wins have to mean something. Im not saying he is an MVP im saying he is in the Top 5. No one besides Manning and maybe Brees is having a great year. Brady so so year for his standards and no big time RBs putting up crazy stats and Graham having a good year just went for 0 catches this last week. No one in the world had KC at 6-0 and alot of the credit goes to the coaching staff, Smith and the D.

Your order is wrong. Coaching staff, D/ST, Jamaal Charles, Schedule, Smith.

 

[imac_21]

I think Alex should be in the talks just because of the wins. I think he should finish in the Top 5 if KC goes 14-2 or 13-3. Its shows that KC really needed a QB and a Coach. As of right now Reid is COTY

Smith belongs in the top 5. . . for KC MVP? I could get behind that. I think Charles and Poe are there top two. Then you're looking at Smith, Houston and Hali in some order.

The question that has to be asked for MVP is who else in the league, if anyone, could do what he's doing. If Smith and Peyton switched teams, how are Denver and KC affected? If Smith switched teams with Luck which team benefits more? Brees? Brady? Rodgers?

This obviously only addresses guys playing the same position, but is KC hurt more if they had to replace Smith with an "average" QB (not the backup, but an average starting QB) or if they had to replace Charles with an average RB?

 

[imac_21]

Smith haters not giving him credit just like he was in SF. The guy wins games. He is a good QB and knows how to win now.

This is ridiculous. He's a good QB. Exactly. He's a good QB. You're arguing he's one of the best 5 players in the league. Is the league in such bad shape that a "good" player is one of its 5 best?

The idea of "Smith haters" is just stupid as well. Someone is a Smith hater because he won't agree that Alex Smith is one of the 5 best players in the league? C'mon Man.

 

[imac_21]

Some times wins have to mean something. Im not saying he is an MVP im saying he is in the Top 5. No one besides Manning and maybe Brees is having a great year. Brady so so year for his standards and no big time RBs putting up crazy stats and Graham having a good year just went for 0 catches this last week. No one in the world had KC at 6-0 and alot of the credit goes to the coaching staff, Smith and the D.

Yes, wins mean something. But why is it the QB that gets credit and no one else? What did Alex Smith do to earn credit for the "win" yesterday? Smith threw for 128 yards. Charles had 128 total yards. What does that say about who contributed more to the win when the RB equals the QB?

Charles scored both offensive TDs.

KC had 10 sacks and 3 interceptions.

Oakland's leading rusher was their QB.

Which KC win this season would you say "thank God they had Alex Smith. There's only a handful of QBs in the world that could have won that game."

Alex Smith is 20th in the league in passing yards.
Alex Smith is 29th in the league in completion percentage.
Alex Smith is 32nd (out of 35 qualifiers) in YPA.
Alex Smith is 17th (tied) in TDs
Alex Smith is 25th in INTs (this is a good thing)
Alex Smith is 22nd in passer rating
Alex Smith is 26th in yards per game

Here's a fun comparison:

Alex Smith's traditional statistics:
122/216/56.5%/1330 yards/6.16 ypa/7 TD/3 INT/79.8 rating

Colin Kaepernick (who everyone says is having a bad to horrible year:
90/161/55.9%/1221 yards/7.58 ypa/8 TD/4INT/83.9 rating

So Kaepernick is having a horrible year, but Smith is a top MVP candidate. Are we overvaluing Smith, or greatly over-criticizing Kap?

 

[Flyingiguana]

Yes, wins mean something. But why is it the QB that gets credit and no one else? What did Alex Smith do to earn credit for the "win" yesterday? Smith threw for 128 yards. Charles had 128 total yards. What does that say about who contributed more to the win when the RB equals the QB?

Charles scored both offensive TDs.

KC had 10 sacks and 3 interceptions.

Oakland's leading rusher was their QB.

Which KC win this season would you say "thank God they had Alex Smith. There's only a handful of QBs in the world that could have won that game."

Alex Smith is 20th in the league in passing yards.
Alex Smith is 29th in the league in completion percentage.
Alex Smith is 32nd (out of 35 qualifiers) in YPA.
Alex Smith is 17th (tied) in TDs
Alex Smith is 25th in INTs (this is a good thing)
Alex Smith is 22nd in passer rating
Alex Smith is 26th in yards per game

Here's a fun comparison:

Alex Smith's traditional statistics:
122/216/56.5%/1330 yards/6.16 ypa/7 TD/3 INT/79.8 rating

Colin Kaepernick (who everyone says is having a bad to horrible year:
90/161/55.9%/1221 yards/7.58 ypa/8 TD/4INT/83.9 rating

So Kaepernick is having a horrible year, but Smith is a top MVP candidate. Are we overvaluing Smith, or greatly over-criticizing Kap?

maybe its the expectations

 

[imac_21]

maybe its the expectations

That's a huge part of it. I just want to bring some perspective to the "Smith is MVP" talk. Alex Smith is having a nearly identical season to Colin Kaepernick. People are furious with Kaepernick's play, and promoting Smith as MVP material.

 

[sjballer03]

People just can't move on. Kaep will have to win a Super Bowl or two to get acceptance from the Smith loyalists.

They want to compare this to Montana-Young but they are deluded.

 

[Kinzu]

Well talent wise Kaep is probably working with more than Smith even with the injuries. They both only have 1 legit WR to throw the ball to right now, but at least Kaep has Vernon. They both have really good RB's, but the 49ers probably have the better offensive line. Also have to factor in one is playing in a new system with new teammates while the other is now in his 3rd year with the same coaching staff.

The point is Kaep should be playing a lot better.

Alex can lead the Chiefs to an undefeated season though and still probably not get the credit he deserves. That team is not very different from the one that went 2-14 a year ago. Alex and Reid are the biggest changes, and they are proven that smart QB play and good coaching are worth everything in the NFL.

 

[erckm510]

Well talent wise Kaep is probably working with more than Smith even with the injuries. They both only have 1 legit WR to throw the ball to right now, but at least Kaep has Vernon. They both have really good RB's, but the 49ers probably have the better offensive line. Also have to factor in one is playing in a new system with new teammates while the other is now in his 3rd year with the same coaching staff.

The point is Kaep should be playing a lot better.

Alex can lead the Chiefs to an undefeated season though and still probably not get the credit he deserves. That team is not very different from the one that went 2-14 a year ago. Alex and Reid are the biggest changes, and they are proven that smart QB play and good coaching are worth everything in the NFL.

So why is the defense so good? Are Reid and Bob Sutton defensive guru's? The offense is better then last year but the defense has been exceptional. KC offense is only scoring 19.5 PPG. The D/ST has 5 TD's already. If the defense was as bad as they were last year then this would be a thread bashing Smith.

 

[purguy12]

Alex Smith has had one of the best winning % in the last 3 years I think Payton is the only better.

Have to give credit when Credit is due.

By the way Im a Big Smith fan but I did agree with Kap being the starter and I think Kap will be fine. Kap had a nice game against the Arizona and lets hope he continues to improve.

 

[threelittleturds]

[/B]

So why is the defense so good? Are Reid and Bob Sutton defensive guru's? The offense is better then last year but the defense has been exceptional. KC offense is only scoring 19.5 PPG. The D/ST has 5 TD's already. If the defense was as bad as they were last year then this would be a thread bashing Smith.

That is an easy question to answer, it is exactly like the shift of the 49ers from 2010-2011. In 2010 the 49ers offense was pitiful and often put the defense in horrible positions, short fields after turnovers and not a lot of time to rest with multiple 3 and outs. The 2012 Chiefs were similar in those regards, a horrible offense screwing the defense over time and time again.

Bring in a new coach that is more competent than the last one, a guy who uses the QB and the offense to protect the defense and you see the same dramatic shift in the defense. Having gone through the same transition as a 49ers fan so recently, I'm actually shocked you don't see the similarities.

Shoot, you just have to look at the Seattle and Indianapolis games this year to see how bad a defense can eventually look when the offense does nothing to support them all game long. Eventually the dam breaks and the other team scores a flood of points.

 

[erckm510]

That is an easy question to answer, it is exactly like the shift of the 49ers from 2010-2011. In 2010 the 49ers offense was pitiful and often put the defense in horrible positions, short fields after turnovers and not a lot of time to rest with multiple 3 and outs. The 2012 Chiefs were similar in those regards, a horrible offense screwing the defense over time and time again.

Bring in a new coach that is more competent than the last one, a guy who uses the QB and the offense to protect the defense and you see the same dramatic shift in the defense. Having gone through the same transition as a 49ers fan so recently, I'm actually shocked you don't see the similarities.

Shoot, you just have to look at the Seattle and Indianapolis games this year to see how bad a defense can eventually look when the offense does nothing to support them all game long. Eventually the dam breaks and the other team scores a flood of points.

So KC's D last year was -24 in takeways and this year it's +12. The offense doesn't help the D with turnovers. KC has 31 sacks so far. They only had 27 all of last year.

I don't see the similarities in regards to the defense because even when the Niners sucked the defense wasn't bad. They improved when Harbough came but they also added Aldon/Whitner/Rogers and inserted Bowman and Brooks into the starting lineup. That's alot of added talent. The Chiefs didn't add anyone.

 

[FourBeeDen]

So KC's D last year was -24 in takeways and this year it's +12. The offense doesn't help the D with turnovers. KC has 31 sacks so far. They only had 27 all of last year.

I don't see the similarities in regards to the defense because even when the Niners sucked the defense wasn't bad. They improved when Harbough came but they also added Aldon/Whitner/Rogers and inserted Bowman and Brooks into the starting lineup. That's alot of added talent. The Chiefs didn't add anyone.

The offense does help the defense in TO battle... Having an offense that protects the ball is a plus on the TO battle.... Having an offense that can get points and be leading especially near the end of the game, gives the defense the opportunity to get those TO... The opposing team is forced to take chances... Also, the opposing team have to throw more giving more chances for sacks... Also, an offense that can sustain long drives helps the defense get some rest which in turn helps in generating pressure, which causes sacks and TO's...

 

[erckm510]

The offense does help the defense in TO battle... Having an offense that protects the ball is a plus on the TO battle.... Having an offense that can get points and be leading especially near the end of the game, gives the defense the opportunity to get those TO... The opposing team is forced to take chances... Also, the opposing team have to throw more giving more chances for sacks... Also, an offense that can sustain long drives helps the defense get some rest which in turn helps in generating pressure, which causes sacks and TO's...

I understand this. But it's just weird to me because I don't recall reading anyone on this board thanking the 49ers offense for the defense being so good in 2011.

 

[purguy12]

It goes both ways, I dont remember the Defense saying thank you to the offense last year for bailing them out in the playoffs and almost in the superbowl. It works both ways.