AL Cy Young Award

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The only way scherzer does not win the Cy is if the voters want to give a present to Mariano Rivera.

Is this a serious comment?

 

[Brahmsian]

If the team loses 1-0 on that run given up in the 1st inning, it's lethal.

Not IMMEDIATELY lethal!
The starters team has many innings to get the run back. That's not the case if a closer blows a lead.

Do you think for example that John Smoltz was more important as a closer than a starter? There's a reason why the Braves wanted him back in the rotation as soon as he built up enough arm strength to endure a 200 inning season.

Who else did the Braves have as a possible closer then? They must have had someone.

Braves history is not my strong suit and my memory is far from photographic.

I'm talking general principles more than particular examples.

 

[Brahmsian]

Then your opinion is worthless

If you disagree you can say so without calling any other opinion worthless.

BTW, I have an IQ of 118, which is higher than most people's but there is no way I would choose a username like yours. I'm smart, but not egotistical. You show some signs that you ARE egotistical.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

If you disagree you can say so without calling any other opinion worthless.

BTW, I have an IQ of 118, which is higher than most people's but there is no way I would choose a username like yours. I'm smart, but not egotistical. You show some signs that you ARE egotistical.

Stating that a pitcher who throws 60-70 innings is ever more valuable than a pitcher who throws 200+ innings of quality baseball is about as ignorant and uninformed an opinion as someone can have, and I say that as an objective baseball fan, not an arrogant or egotistical person.

I also don't see what my username has to do with anything.

 

[Brahmsian]

Stating that a pitcher who throws 60-70 innings is ever more valuable than a pitcher who throws 200+ innings of quality baseball is about as ignorant and uninformed an opinion as someone can have, and I say that as an objective baseball fan, not an arrogant or egotistical person.

I also don't see what my username has to do with anything.

Think for just a minute about the username YOU CHOSE, that was not forced upon you.

Put politely, it is not indicative of humility at all!

 

[StanMarsh51]

Who else did the Braves have as a possible closer then? They must have had someone.

Braves history is not my strong suit and my memory is far from photographic.

I'm talking general principles more than particular examples.

When Smoltz went back to the rotation, they used the combination of Danny Kolb and Chris Reitsma to close, with neither being very good....so they clearly valued Smoltz more as a starter otherwise they wouldn't have let 2 mediocre relievers close games.

And on what general principal are we seeing closers valued more than starters? How come closers don't win Cy/MVP awards more often? How come they're not getting $20 million/year contracts like starters are?

 

[Brahmsian]

When Smoltz went back to the rotation, they used the combination of Danny Kolb and Chris Reitsma to close, with neither being very good....so they clearly valued Smoltz more as a starter otherwise they wouldn't have let 2 mediocre relievers close games.

And on what general principal are we seeing closers valued more than starters? How come closers don't win Cy/MVP awards more often? How come they're not getting $20 million/year contracts like starters are?

Owners overruling underlings who know more about baseball than they do is a possibility. Not a certainty,to be sure,
but still...

 

[broncosmitty]

Think for just a minute about the username YOU CHOSE, that was not forced upon you.

Put politely, it is not indicative of humility at all!

 

[StanMarsh51]

+1

 

[navamind]

+1

It never gets old.

 

[Wazmankg]

I don't like QS as a statistic.

Why not use 5 IP / 2 ER as the threshold for QS? The pitcher gave up one less run and they could still get a win. Why is 6 IP / 3 ER better than 5 IP / 2 ER?

Only 5 IP calls for a deep and good pen. 6 a bit less. I'm not crazy about QS either. Sale eats innings and wins the eyeball test for me. I've seen nearly all of Max's starts and only a handful of Sale's though. Sale doesn't have a prayer. It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets. I don't think we're even close to a time when a guy with a losing record wins the CYA, especially one who doesn't completely dominate in several other categories.

 

[Wazmankg]

Side question: When the MVP award thread starts, will you be using BA as a major determining factor?

There's no need for an AL MVP thread.

 

[Brahmsian]

Only 5 IP calls for a deep and good pen. 6 a bit less. I'm not crazy about QS either. Sale eats innings and wins the eyeball test for me. I've seen nearly all of Max's starts and only a handful of Sale's though. Sale doesn't have a prayer. It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets. I don't think we're even close to a time when a guy with a losing record wins the CYA, especially one who doesn't completely dominate in several other categories.

For my money a QS should be at least 7 innings. Or require at least 4 clean innings.

Wouldn't really object to the stat being discontinued altogether.

PS, if a pitcher for a losing team has the best ERA in the league, or the best K/BB ratio, would that merit
consideration?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Think for just a minute about the username YOU CHOSE, that was not forced upon you.

Put politely, it is not indicative of humility at all!

I've lost count at this point.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Owners overruling underlings who know more about baseball than they do is a possibility. Not a certainty,to be sure,
but still...

I repeat: batshit crazy.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

There's no need for an AL MVP thread.

I bet you said the same thing last year.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

IMsmartherthanyou, the reason sale does not deserve the CY over Scherzer is simple... Their stats are too similar to discount the one stat that they are not even close and that is wins... I know you hate the stat but you are foolish to discount it totally... It is important, just because you see the flaw in the stat does not mean that it doesnt have many positives too... In my opinion the order should look like this

1. max Scherzer
2. bartolo colon(best ERA and has 17 wins)
3. yu darvish
4. chris Sale
5. anibal sanchez

 

[StanMarsh51]

IMsmartherthanyou, the reason sale does not deserve the CY over Scherzer is simple... Their stats are too similar to discount the one stat that they are not even close and that is wins... I know you hate the stat but you are foolish to discount it totally... It is important, just because you see the flaw in the stat does not mean that it doesnt have many positives too... In my opinion the order should look like this

1. max Scherzer
2. bartolo colon(best ERA and has 17 wins)
3. yu darvish
4. chris Sale
5. anibal sanchez

Colon and Sanchez have too few innings for me to put them over someone like Iwakama, and I don't think their rate stats are better to the point that you can discount Iwakama's 25+ innings over both of them.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

IMsmartherthanyou, the reason sale does not deserve the CY over Scherzer is simple... Their stats are too similar to discount the one stat that they are not even close and that is wins... I know you hate the stat but you are foolish to discount it totally... It is important, just because you see the flaw in the stat does not mean that it doesnt have many positives too... In my opinion the order should look like this

1. max Scherzer
2. bartolo colon(best ERA and has 17 wins)
3. yu darvish
4. chris Sale
5. anibal sanchez

Please note that I've said repeatedly that I think Scherzer will win the award on the strength of his record.

I don't completely dismiss wins. I look at then when you have two comparable pitchers on comparable teams. You cannot look at wins for players on two completely different teams. It's not Sale's fault that he doesn't have the Tigers' offense supporting him, and that he has a Little League defense playing behind him (granted, Detroit's defense is also awful). So it's completely useless to look at wins to compare a pitcher on a 95 win team and a 95 loss team.

Your ballot is bullshit. Colon *and* Sanchez? Despite their lack of innings? No Iwakuma? Seriously, just stop. Baseball isn't your thing.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Since I promised an analysis of Darvish and Sale, I'll go a step further. I analyzed the four top candidates based on the statistics in my earlier comparison of Sale and Scherzer. I rated them 1 thru 4 in each statistic, and totaled their respective ranks. Lowest score indicates best rank in the most categories. So in this case, lowest score is best, highest score is worst.

Sale - 46
Scherzer - 43
Darvish - 49
Iwakuma - 56

So I'd probably lean Scherzer based on this, but it's clearly very close, and each pitcher has a start left.