AL Cy Young Award

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Here, just to show an effort to not "disregard wins":

Sale: 209 IP, 7.2 IP/GS, 3 CG, 1 SHO, 45 BB, 221 K, 2.97 ERA, 144 ERA+, 1.053 WHIP, 7.5 H/9, 1.9 BB/9, 9.5 K/9, 4.91 K/BB, .225 BAA, .628 OPSA, 7.3 bWAR, 2.94 xFIP, 11 W
Scherzer: 207 IP, 6.7 IP/GS, 0 CG, 0 SHO, 50 BB, 230 K, 3.00 ERA, 139 ERA+, 0.965 WHIP, 6.5 H/9, 2.2 BB/9, 10.0 K/9, 4.60 K/BB, .201 BAA, .588 OPSA, 6.1 bWAR, 3.13 xFIP, 20 W

Sale leads in 11 of these 18 categories, so I'd say he has a slight edge over Scherzer. At worst, they're dead even.

And yet, you have all but dismissed Sale as a candidate. I have never dismissed Scherzer at any point (or Darvish). He's having a great year, and I'd have no problem if he won the award, so long as it was based on the merits of his overall accomplishments, rather than his W-L record, which is a team accomplishment. Similarly, Sale shouldn't be punished because of his team.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Ks, era, that is more dominat

So K's and ERA are the only measures of dominance and all we need to determine who the better pitcher is. Cool. I've wasted all this time thinking that a variety of statistics can be used to determine the effectiveness of a pitcher. Silly me.

 

[Hambombs]

How'd he prevent runs when he wasn't pitching?

Yes he was pitching in 2013 thanks for playing

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Wins= team stat

Every star is flawed. Discounting a stat because u don't like its flaw means u are not including the good the stat tells as well. Your fixated on situational a but how many pitchers find ways to lose those close games. Wins is still an important stat and it is the whole point of the game. When I value pitchers for how they did THIS season in order the stats I look at

1. ERA
2. WHip
3. Wins
4. QS

All else I don't believe is as important because we are not valuing talent we are valuing who had the best season.

 

[Hambombs]

So K's and ERA are the only measures of dominance? Cool.

K/9, xFIP

 

[Brahmsian]

Lol.

And a relief pitcher should never win it.

This award should go to starters more often than relievers, granted, but saying "never" is going overboard.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Every star is flawed. Discounting a stat because u don't like its flaw means u are not including the good the stat tells as well. Your fixated on situational a but how many pitchers find ways to lose those close games. Wins is still an important stat and it is the whole point of the game. When I value pitchers for how they did THIS season in order the stats I look at

1. ERA
2. WHip
3. Wins
4. QS

All else I don't believe is important because we are not valuing talent we are valuing who had the best season.

Yeah... I'm not sure the nicest way to say this... but maybe you should just stick to football or basketball. Baseball- while a simple sport at the end of the day- is clearly above your level of comprehension. The world needs ditch diggers.

 

[Hambombs]

So K's and ERA are the only measures of dominance and all we need to determine who the better pitcher is. Cool. I've wasted all this time thinking that a variety of statistics can be used to determine the effectiveness of a pitcher. Silly me.

We can all point out stats all day to fit our conversation but there are a bunch. You have innings and less walks or whatever, I have k's and ERA we can sit here all day and argue about it but nobody will win

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

K/9, xFIP

I'll come back later and do a side-by-side of Sale and Darvish. I'm sure the results will be similar to the Sale-Scherzer comparison. At the very least, it will demonstrate that Sale should not be so quickly dismissed, which you and MilkSpiller seem to want to do for some idiotic reason. I gotta hit the road now.

 

[broncosmitty]

Yes he was pitching in 2013 thanks for playing

Didn't I have a Darvish conversation with you a couple months ago?

 

[Hambombs]

I'll come back later and do a side-by-side of Sale and Darvish. I'm sure the results will be similar to the Sale-Scherzer comparison. At the very least, it will demonstrate that Sale should not be so quickly dismissed, which you and MilkSpiller seem to want to do for some idiotic reason. I gotta hit the road now.

Never dismissed him he's 3rd IMO maybe 2nd up to the voters really

 

[broncosmitty]

This award should go to starters more often than relievers, granted, but saying "never" is going overboard.

Almost never would be a safe statement, IMO. When was the last time it happened? 1984? I honestly don't know.

 

[Hambombs]

Didn't I have a Darvish conversation with you a couple months ago?

Haha yes. I'm just being sarcastic with you guys right now no harm

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

This award should go to starters more often than relievers, granted, but saying "never" is going overboard.

Unless no starter pitches great while surpassing 180 innings, or some other completely unlikely or unforeseeable scenario, then never is a perfectly adequate word.

In the history of the award, there has never been a season where a reliever deserved the award.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Never dismissed him he's 3rd IMO maybe 2nd up to the voters really

You said "I just don't understand the Chris sale love " and that you "don't really need to explain it".

Sounds pretty dismissive to me.

 

[steveringo]

Wow. This thread took off.... It is sad it took so much to explain why QS is not really used to judge starters ability - and certainly should not be used in CYA discussion. (Shields leads all starters, and this may be the first time he's made an appearance in this thread)


Not much wins above replacement talk yet, so....

Pitchers WAR gives Sale a big lead (7.3 over Iwakuma's 6.7 & Scherzer' 6.1)...

What we talk about when we talk about WAR - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN



GO!

 

[Hambombs]

Unless no starter pitches great while surpassing 180 innings, or some other completely unlikely or unforeseeable scenario, then never is a perfectly adequate word.

In the history of the award, there has never been a season where a reliever deserved the award.

But what if the reliever has a 0 ERA in 67 innings with a 16 k/9 with less than 10 walks with 3 hits per 9 does he deserve it after that?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Almost never would be a safe statement, IMO. When was the last time it happened? 1984? I honestly don't know.

2003 - Eric Gagne
1992 - Dennis Eckersley
1989 - Mark Davis
1987 - Steve Bedrosian

All heinous selections. Davis and Bedrosian weren't even the best *relievers* in their respective leagues the year they won.

 

[Hambombs]

You said "I just don't understand the Chris sale love " and that you "don't really need to explain it".

Sounds pretty dismissive to me.

No I just understand why he's clearly above scherzer and darvish

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Wow. This thread took off.... It is sad it took so much to explain why QS is not really used to judge starters ability - and certainly should not be used in CYA discussion. (Shields leads all starters, and this may be the first time he's made an appearance in this thread)


Not much wins above replacement talk yet, so....

Pitchers WAR gives Sale a big lead (7.3 over Iwakuma's 6.7 & Scherzer' 6.1)...

What we talk about when we talk about WAR - SweetSpot Blog - ESPN



GO!

I mentioned him! How many points do I get?