AL Cy Young Award

[ImSmartherThanYou]

QS is not theoretical at all because it is not about winning and it is not about ERA... it is its own stat...

Who decided that 6 IP/3 ER was a quality start? Why did they decide that was the threshold? Why wasn't it 7 IP/2 ER or any number of other combinations? They must have had some sort of philosophy or premise or rationale behind it, right? Or else it's completely arbitrary. So it's either arbitrary, or based on some kind of rationale. Or both.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Oh, and I just happened to look up the league leaders in QS since we're on the subject...

Scherzer has 24. Sale has 23. Scherzer has started two more games, so his QS% is actually lower.

So way to go with that.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Oh, and I just happened to look up the league leaders in QS since we're on the subject...

Scherzer has 24. Sale has 23. Scherzer has started two more games, so his QS% is actually lower.

So way to go with that.

I never said he wins Cy young because of QS. In fact that really became a seperate argument. Since u don't understand the purpose of QS.

Would u agree with these 2 statements that I believe
1. All stats have their flaws
2. The more statistics u use the more accurate of an analysis u can make

 

[Hunter Montana]

You clearly dont understand why Quality starts is such a great statistic(it is one of my favorites)

The league average scores 4+ runs per game, so all a QS means is that a pitcher leaves the game in position to give there team a win since they have only at most given 3 runs... this is one of the only stats that shows consistency throughout the season... would you rather have a pitcher with a great ERA but struggles in too many games??

If you saw why i included wins- as much as you hate the stat it is still a "REAL" stat... "REAL" stat is my word for the black and white stats. they are the stats that are all about production, reasoning is irrelevant... these are the best stats for casual fans and media, so you can never discount them... A statistic you need to explain will never be able to get mainstreamed...

I don't like QS as a statistic.

Why not use 5 IP / 2 ER as the threshold for QS? The pitcher gave up one less run and they could still get a win. Why is 6 IP / 3 ER better than 5 IP / 2 ER?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I never said he wins Cy young because of QS. In fact that really became a seperate argument. Since u don't understand the purpose of QS.

Would u agree with these 2 statements that I believe
1. All stats have their flaws
2. The more statistics u use the more accurate of an analysis u can make

You gave QS as one of the four reasons that Scherzer should easily win the award. So yeah, you did.

I understand the purpose of QS. I don't know why you keep stating otherwise. The problem is that the purpose of the stat is based on an arbitrary accomplishment.

I agree with both statements. However, you've yet to provide a comprehensive analysis, which I have.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I don't like QS as a statistic.

Why not use 5 IP / 2 ER as the threshold for QS? The pitcher gave up one less run and they could still get a win. Why is 6 IP / 3 ER better than 5 IP / 2 ER?

I could go even further. A pitcher who throws 5.2 IP and doesn't yield a single run does not get a QS. But a pitcher who gives up 3 ER in 6 IP does.

And to take it even further, a pitcher could give up 8 runs in 6 IP and still get a quality start.

It's completely arbitrary and of little use.

 

[broncosmitty]

Quality Starts are bullshit.(unless you're a big fan of 4.50 ERAs) That is all. For now.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't like QS as a statistic.

Why not use 5 IP / 2 ER as the threshold for QS? The pitcher gave up one less run and they could still get a win. Why is 6 IP / 3 ER better than 5 IP / 2 ER?

It is 6 innings as a minimum because a start is 5+innings and quality means that it has to be better than minimum so it must be 6.

3 runs is the maximum because the league average runs is 4+, so 3 runs means u give your team a chance to win. It's a very simple statistic and it is one of the only stats that measures consistency.

 

[Hunter Montana]

I could go even further. A pitcher who throws 5.2 IP and doesn't yield a single run does not get a QS. But a pitcher who gives up 3 ER in 6 IP does.

And to take it even further, a pitcher could give up 8 runs in 6 IP and still get a quality start.

It's completely arbitrary and of little use.

You could even say....a pitcher goes 8.2 IP and has 3 ER. Walks a batter. Bullpen guy gives up a HR. Starting pitcher finishes with 8.2 IP and 4 ER. No QS. If we are expecting bullpens to hold up leads over three innings, they should at least be able to get one out, right?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Quality Starts are bullshit.(unless you're a big fan of 4.50 ERAs) That is all. For now.

ERA and QS are seperate stats and have nothing to do with each other.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Quality Starts are bullshit.(unless you're a big fan of 4.50 ERAs) That is all. For now.

I know we had our differences early, but we're in lock-step lately.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It is 6 innings as a minimum because a start is 5+innings and quality means that it has to be better than minimum so it must be 6.

3 runs is the maximum because the league average runs is 4+, so 3 runs means u give your team a chance to win. It's a very simple statistic and it is one of the only stats that measures consistency.

This is an embarrassingly weak rationale.

1. "A start is 5+ innings"? What does that even mean???? A start is any game where the pitcher STARTS THE GAME. It can be 6 innings, it can be 10 innings, it can be 0 innings. If he starts the game, it's a start.

2. How is 5 2/3 with 0 ER worse than 6 IP with 3 ER? How is that "less" quality? The rigidity of the stat is what makes it so useless (not to mention, again, who came up with the thresholds and why?). If you wanted to give the scorekeeper the power to award a Quality Start, like they can with saves and wins, fine. But then you're introducing subjectivity to it, which doesn't help matters either.

3. You earlier chastised me for suggesting that the theory behind quality starts was that it puts your team in a position to win. So now, you're going back on that, I see. You're saying 3 ER gives your team a better chance to win. But what about unearned runs? Is it really a "quality start" if a pitcher allows 8 runs, but 5 of them are unearned? Because that's considered a quality start if the pitcher goes 6 innings.

4. ALL stats measure consistency. A pitcher can be consistently bad, too, ya know. Or consistently average. Over the course of 162 games, your stats are your stats. In a full season, your rate stats are what demonstrate your consistency, since every pitcher has some bad outings and every pitcher has some great outings. It's season-to-season that you observe consistency.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

You could even say....a pitcher goes 8.2 IP and has 3 ER. Walks a batter. Bullpen guy gives up a HR. Starting pitcher finishes with 8.2 IP and 4 ER. No QS. If we are expecting bullpens to hold up leads over three innings, they should at least be able to get one out, right?

You got it. Good example.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

ERA and QS are seperate stats and have nothing to do with each other.

They would be separate if QS didn't clearly state EARNED RUNS. As such, the two are always going to be intertwined, and rightfully so.

 

[Hambombs]

As of today, my ballot would be:

1. Sale
2. Scherzer
3. Darvish
4. Iwakuma
5. Sanchez

But they're all so close. Very little separates the Top 4 candidates in my mind. And they still have at least one start left. Then, there's a pretty good drop-off to the guys vying for the #5 slot (Sanchez, Felix, Shields, Kuroda, Colon, Santana, etc.)

Do you love sale? Loll

 

[broncosmitty]

ERA and QS are seperate stats and have nothing to do with each other.

Duh! A guy can go a complete game, win 6-4, and not get a QS. And the losing pitcher could go 6, give up 3 earned and get himself a QS. What good is that? It has it moments as a stat. But it's of little value really. (The 4.50 ERA was in reference to 3 earned over 6 innings)

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Do you love sale? Loll

Huh?

 

[Hambombs]

Sorry smarter than you but scherzer and darvish> Sale

 

[Hambombs]

Huh?

I just don't understand the Chris sale love

 

[MilkSpiller22]

They would be separate if QS didn't clearly state EARNED RUNS. As such, the two are always going to be intertwined, and rightfully so.

And that is where u guys are wrong. Doesn't k/9 tell a different story than k/BB. They both include strikeouts but are 2 separate stats. One compliments the other but they are 2 different stats.