AL Central Discussion

[mr.hockey4242]

I'm not the one making excuses. The Twins definitely had higher expectations than the Indians coming into the season considering they tried to give Correa a shit ton of money and he even realizes he wants nothing to do with this ball club. He gone. Giving a 7 year contract to a guy that can barely finish one half of a season....sounds like desperation.


I never once said the Twins were super old. I only referenced the Indians age and youth because you want to blame the failures on young players from the minors called up bc of injuries. Sure there is a difference between calling someone up bc of injured players then the player projected to be ready for the MLB level but that isn't reality. A lot of these rookies were called up, sent back down, called up and so on....the Twins farm system just isn't as juiced as the Indians is what it comes down to. No worries...the Indians have a top 5 farm system bc it's mandatory to compete. They don't spend bc they have a cheap owner and it's been like that for 20+ years. The Indians are a couple years ahead of schedule.

Ummmmmm

No one had the Twins way ahead of the Guardians in the regular season. Shit many had us even below them.

Maybe youre thinking the Tigers who were a complete bust. But the Twins have not underachieved. They just would have overachieved if they didnt have injuries.

But again, for now the 5th time the issue wasnt the farm system being bad. Larnach, Lewis, Kirilloff, Duran, Miranda, Ryan, Ober, Jax, Winder have all shown they belong up here.

The issue is(again for the 5th time) injuries to many of those guys plus long term injuries to the vets have caused us to dip down to guys that are 4th on the MINOR leauge depth chart that is the issue.

How can you not grasp this? The Guardians are succeeding with their Lewis and Kirlloffs. They are not succeeding with their Jake Caves and Gilberto Celestinos.

Like you literally said "you want to blame the failures of your players in the minors called up because of injuries". No, Miranda was called up due to a injury. He was great led the team in RBI. Larnach and Kirilloff came up due to injuries. Same thing great. Lewis, looked like a superstar. Its not the first wave it was wave 4 of call ups. Please for humanitys sake grasp this.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ummmmmm

No one had the Twins way ahead of the Guardians in the regular season. Shit many had us even below them.

Maybe youre thinking the Tigers who were a complete bust. But the Twins have not underachieved. They just would have overachieved if they didnt have injuries.

But again, for now the 5th time the issue wasnt the farm system being bad. Larnach, Lewis, Kirilloff, Duran, Miranda, Ryan, Ober, Jax, Winder have all shown they belong up here.

The issue is(again for the 5th time) injuries to many of those guys plus long term injuries to the vets have caused us to dip down to guys that are 4th on the MINOR leauge depth chart that is the issue.

How can you not grasp this? The Guardians are succeeding with their Lewis and Kirlloffs. They are not succeeding with their Jake Caves and Gilberto Celestinos.

Like you literally said "you want to blame the failures of your players in the minors called up because of injuries". No, Miranda was called up due to a injury. He was great led the team in RBI. Larnach and Kirilloff came up due to injuries. Same thing great. Lewis, looked like a superstar. Its not the first wave it was wave 4 of call ups. Please for humanitys sake grasp this.

not one publication had the Guardians any higher than 4th in the AL Central when the season began- some had the Guardians as the worst team in the division.

I bet you could not find one publication that had the Guardians ahead of the Twins.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Dude, if youre gonna try and engage. Please read. Its not a lack of depth. They had depth. But everyone got hurt. I said they are on their 5th string, not their 2nd and 3rd.

When Sano went down they had Miranda. They started off with having no way to play all of Kirillof, Miranda, Larnach, Lewis along with the guys already starting.

But, do to injuries long term to kirilloff, Larnach, Sano, Lewis they have had to dive deeper. That also ignores the usually Buxton injury, Polanco and Kepler being out for long periods. Jermaine Palacios single handedly lost the game the other night, because he was our only healthy remaining option.

Nick Gordon cant play well defensively at any position, hes had to play 6 different ones out of necessity to field a team. He started the year as a utiltiy role player was still one when Kirilloff/Larnach/Lewis/Miranda all came up. Hes now our clean up hitter with 8 home runs.

PItching wise. Winder hurt. Ober out all year. Paddock out all year. Gray 2 IL stints. Even Joe Ryan had 3 weeks of rona shelfed. The Guardians have 3 starters over 162 innings already. The Twins will not have 1 that could even qualify for the ERA title. And that is not just cause Rocco pulls guys. We simply havent had guys make enough starts.

Twins Buxton injury (all though he is kind of always hurt) and their SP injuries were huge.

Guardians got Civale back- but they went into a stretch of 18 games in 17 days with Plesac and Civale out and put together a back end of the rotation with spit and duct tape.

Cody Morris is a good prospect but he was injured most of the year and just came back and had no length. They had to sacrifice Gladden the other day to the White Sox. Indians starting pitching depth is not there yet - most of their real prospects are still a year or two away- but they did a decent job.

16 guys on the Indians have made their major league debut this year and they have a roster younger than most AAA teams.

but- if you have Bieber, Ramirez and Clase- you have a base of 3 high level all stars to build around which a lot of teams do not have.

Trading for Mahle to see him get hurt was a huge blow. So was Gray not being able to stay healthy. A rotation with Mahle and Gray healthy at the top with Ryan 3rd is solid.


getting Miranda established helps the Twins a lot next year- as will getting Kiriloff back- but they need Lewis or Caves or someone to step up

losing Correa would be a humongous loss for them- I wonder if they try and bring him back. Supposedly they have a ton of money coming off the books and a pretty clean sheet of salaries.

Kiriloff and Larnach going down hurt--- especially Kiriloff if you ask me. Sano going down for Mirando was a huge net positive.

 

[broncosmitty]

You do realize the Guardians have the youngest roster in the league, their roster is younger than most minor league squads. So basically the Twins are getting beat by a bunch of kids

Tigers are the only team to average under 3 hour games.


You guys waste a lot of time trotting around the bars after home runs.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Ummmmmm

No one had the Twins way ahead of the Guardians in the regular season. Shit many had us even below them.

Maybe youre thinking the Tigers who were a complete bust. But the Twins have not underachieved. They just would have overachieved if they didnt have injuries.

But again, for now the 5th time the issue wasnt the farm system being bad. Larnach, Lewis, Kirilloff, Duran, Miranda, Ryan, Ober, Jax, Winder have all shown they belong up here.

The issue is(again for the 5th time) injuries to many of those guys plus long term injuries to the vets have caused us to dip down to guys that are 4th on the MINOR leauge depth chart that is the issue.

How can you not grasp this? The Guardians are succeeding with their Lewis and Kirlloffs. They are not succeeding with their Jake Caves and Gilberto Celestinos.

Like you literally said "you want to blame the failures of your players in the minors called up because of injuries". No, Miranda was called up due to a injury. He was great led the team in RBI. Larnach and Kirilloff came up due to injuries. Same thing great. Lewis, looked like a superstar. Its not the first wave it was wave 4 of call ups. Please for humanitys sake grasp this.

gotta say though- its a luxury that the Twins can just add a guy like Correa to the lineup in free agency.

If the Indians could add a big time bat in free agency and supplement by signing a starter, it would be game over. But alas- they are cheap bastards.

Easily the Indians biggest free agent signing ever in their history was Edwin Encarnacion for 3 years 60 million. They did give Nick Swisher 4 years 56 I guess too.

As the Nights Watch says- "We shall never see a free agent contract of his like again".

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean- I am glad that the Tribe did not give Javier Baez $140 million dollars (which is incredibly more money than Jose Ramirez got)....

but it would be pretty nice if they could spend on just one hitter and re-sign Bieber.


Twins do have the money to bring back Correa if they want.

Next year their big money guys are:

1. Correa- 35 million (if he opts in)
2. Buxton- 15 million
3. Gray- 13 million
4. Kepler 8.5 million
5. Polanco- 7.5 million
6. Maeda- 3.5 million

Bundy has a 11 million team option. Archer has a 10 million mutual option.


The Cheap Ass Tribe?
1. Jose Ramirez- 14M
2. Straw- 2.4 M
3. Clase 1.5 M

and then arbitration guys
1. Bieber- 8M-10M
2. Rosario- 7M

Bryan Shaw is the Indians 5th highest paid player this year at 3 million. LOL. Hediges is 4th at 4 million - he is a FA though- maybe they bring him back on a 1 year 5M or 2 year 10M or something---- or they just let Naylor take over.

 

[WiggyRuss]

my guess is the Indians big spending in the offseason is re-signing Hedges at 2 years 10M to split catcher with Naylor.

Rosario at 7M is gonna get pricey for an arbitration award.

I hope one of these days they actually spend a little bit. Jose Ramirez had to take a hair cut like no other to take that long term deal.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Indians have the tiebreaker against both the Twins and White Sox- and with no 1 game playoff for a tie- the tie-breaker matters.

5 game lead on the White Sox and now a 8 game lead on the Twins- which are effectively 6 and 9 game leads with the tie breakers.

14 games to go.

If they can split one of these next 2 with the White Sox, even as a Cleveland fan- I will pretty confident.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Tigers are the only team to average under 3 hour games.


You guys waste a lot of time trotting around the bars after home runs.

lol not the Guardians- they hit like the least homers in the majors- or close to.

oh shit- nevermind.

Guardians are 29th.

Tigers are 30th.

sorry bro- didnt know that before I checked.

that is fucking unbelievable- its a gap too

Guardians have 116 homers- 29th in baseball......Royals and Nats are 27th and 28th at 122 and 126

tigers are last with 93.....

dude..... wtf.

 

[WiggyRuss]

thats truly unfucking believable that the Tigers have 93 homers on the year. The Yankees are #1 with 231........thats just disgusting.

 

[broncosmitty]

thats truly unfucking believable that the Tigers have 93 homers on the year. The Yankees are #1 with 231........thats just disgusting.

Hence my joke.


Lol

Imagine if they didn’t have Javy Baez leading the way, with 14!?!

Only the Twins have less stolen bases than Detroit. Biproduct of Minny being so old.

 

[broncosmitty]

Jon Berti has more stolen bases than the Minnesota Twins.

Ced Mullins and Tommy Edman are tied with the organization.

 

[broncosmitty]

It’s crazy the White Sox arent walking away with this shitty division.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It’s crazy the White Sox arent walking away with this shitty division.

its insane.

Giolito and Grandal shit all over themselves this year.

Moncada is just a fucking flop.

Robert and Eloy can never get in the lineup at the same time.

I mean- Cease, Lynn, Giolito, Koepech, Cueto with Hendricks closing should be pretty money.

Robert, Eloy, Anderson, Grandal, Vaughn, Abreu, Pollack, Moncada

they have so much more talent than the Guardians but area constantly hurt and have no heart.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Gotta give the Tribe credit with how they developed guys--- Gimenez and Kwan both are about .300/370.....both steal bases- Gimenez has some pop. Naylor was at least solid. Oscar Gonzalez is at least decent with some room to grow....

bullpen has been the big thing for the Tribe though- esp. in the 2nd half once Karinchak got back from injury.

Clase, Karinchak, Stephen, Hentges, Sandlin is pretty nasty. All together they make less than 1/2 of what Hendricks does too.

 

[broncosmitty]

its insane.

Giolito and Grandal shit all over themselves this year.

Moncada is just a fucking flop.

Robert and Eloy can never get in the lineup at the same time.

I mean- Cease, Lynn, Giolito, Koepech, Cueto with Hendricks closing should be pretty money.

Robert, Eloy, Anderson, Grandal, Vaughn, Abreu, Pollack, Moncada

they have so much more talent than the Guardians but area constantly hurt and have no heart.

They have a losing record at home.

Even with all the injuries they’ve had, that’s hard to do with as much talent as there is on the roster.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Twins Buxton injury (all though he is kind of always hurt) and their SP injuries were huge.

Guardians got Civale back- but they went into a stretch of 18 games in 17 days with Plesac and Civale out and put together a back end of the rotation with spit and duct tape.

Cody Morris is a good prospect but he was injured most of the year and just came back and had no length. They had to sacrifice Gladden the other day to the White Sox. Indians starting pitching depth is not there yet - most of their real prospects are still a year or two away- but they did a decent job.

16 guys on the Indians have made their major league debut this year and they have a roster younger than most AAA teams.

but- if you have Bieber, Ramirez and Clase- you have a base of 3 high level all stars to build around which a lot of teams do not have.

Trading for Mahle to see him get hurt was a huge blow. So was Gray not being able to stay healthy. A rotation with Mahle and Gray healthy at the top with Ryan 3rd is solid.


getting Miranda established helps the Twins a lot next year- as will getting Kiriloff back- but they need Lewis or Caves or someone to step up

losing Correa would be a humongous loss for them- I wonder if they try and bring him back. Supposedly they have a ton of money coming off the books and a pretty clean sheet of salaries.

Kiriloff and Larnach going down hurt--- especially Kiriloff if you ask me. Sano going down for Mirando was a huge net positive.

?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?

Also, Mahle cant use injuries as an excuse. Our own dumbass executives traded for him with a well known shoulder issue. That wasnt bad luck that was incompetence.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Guardians won the division last night. Sox tanked in a Cease start. Its over

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Hence my joke.


Lol

Imagine if they didn’t have Javy Baez leading the way, with 14!?!

Only the Twins have less stolen bases than Detroit. Biproduct of Minny being so old.

Sad thing is, Jon Berti is older than the Twins entire opening day lineup.

 

[catman]

Frankly, I think its all about management. Francona has the ability to get players to be better than they really are and has for years. LaRussa seems to be aloof and not really engaged in the game at times. Baldelli makes too many mistakes with his pitchers.