A Little FA News

[TEB11]

.....I am getting the feeling here that no one wants to play on the same team as Kobe Bryant. Too bad Laker brass can't figure that out!!!!!

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I think you guys are really overstating any issues with the Buss family and Kobe at these presentations.

Certainly a possibility.

I'm sure they thought they had a good chance to get Aldridge, but doubt they thought it was guaranteed. That previous rebuild included a prime Kobe. Slightly different situation now.

I do blame Jim Buss for losing Howard. That was a result of choosing D'Antoni over Phil. That was a huge mistake IMO and ruined that reload plan.

There's no proof Phil was even still interested in coaching, he was having a hard time traveling with the team before his retirement and he has not returned to coaching. When you are offered a team that consists of Howard, Kobe and Nash and you say "I'll think about it" then I wouldn't blame the organization for going a different route. D'Antoni was a backup plan that was derailed by injuries to Steve Nash who was supposed to help that offense work. Instead we got Kobe trying to run and gun as point guard.

 

[Retroram52]

Yea, it'll be B.Scott and Mitch this time. Apparently the Lakers left out all of the albatrosses. Let's see... ...the weirdness of the Buss family, James Worthy, and... ... not going to say it.

Can't speak for others lakersrule, but I presented a compilation of reports in my posts using some verbatim and some interpretations.

 

[lakersrule]

Certainly a possibility.



There's no proof Phil was even still interested in coaching, he was having a hard time traveling with the team before his retirement and he has not returned to coaching. When you are offered a team that consists of Howard, Kobe and Nash and you say "I'll think about it" then I wouldn't blame the organization for going a different route. D'Antoni was a backup plan that was derailed by injuries to Steve Nash who was supposed to help that offense work. Instead we got Kobe trying to run and gun as point guard.

For all Phil had done for the organization, I think Jim could have given him the whole weekend to decide. There was no reason to rush the hiring of D'Antoni. He was laid up on pain killers after knee surgery. Another team was not going to beat us to him. It reeked of a sibling rivarly/power play to me.

 

[lakersrule]

Can't speak for others lakersrule, but I presented a compilation of reports in my posts using some verbatim and some interpretations.

Mainly conjecture though. There weren't any real reports of what transgressed at the meeting, simply leaks from "sources."

 

[Retroram52]

Yea that too. There's some truth to some of the stories otherwise why would they have a second meeting to "get it right"?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

For all Phil had done for the organization, I think Jim could have given him the whole weekend to decide. There was no reason to rush the hiring of D'Antoni. He was laid up on pain killers after knee surgery. Another team was not going to beat us to him. It reeked of a sibling rivarly/power play to me.

I guess I just feel like some Lakers fans will be begging for Phil even when he's 100 years old, the guy's getting older and he won't be able to save our team and lead them to championships forever, eventually you gotta move on. He seems pretty happy with the job he has now, at least when he's not being asked questions about the effectiveness of the triangle.

We got 5 championships and 7 finals with him, I'm happy with that.

 

[Retroram52]

Yea, Outlaw, I remember when we went through this when The Logo left for good as well as when Riley left for Miami and for good. Saying goodbye to successful coaches and players apparently is difficult for some people.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think you guys are really overstating any issues with the Buss family and Kobe at these presentations.

Folks want to blame someone and those are easy targets.

 

[lakersrule]

Yea that too. There's some truth to some of the stories otherwise why would they have a second meeting to "get it right"?

True. Never any shortage of drama in Lakersland.

 

[lakersrule]

I guess I just feel like some Lakers fans will be begging for Phil even when he's 100 years old, the guy's getting older and he won't be able to save our team and lead them to championships forever, eventually you gotta move on. He seems pretty happy with the job he has now, at least when he's not being asked questions about the effectiveness of the triangle.

We got 5 championships and 7 finals with him, I'm happy with that.

His time in Los Angeles, other than banging the Lakers boss, has certainly passed now.

 

[DJ]

Cole Aldrich, Earl Barron, Joel Anthony, Bismarck Biyombo, Glen Davis, Matt Bonner, and Andrea Bargnani are still available.....let's go, Mitch!!!

 

[wildturkey]

"The Lakers say they have six people working on stats, four of whom focus on data provided by SportVU, the six in-arena cameras located in the rafters of every NBA arena that use Israeli missile-tracking technology to record the movements of each player, the referees and the ball 25 times per second every game.

Two of those SportVU people are based in L.A.; two others -- including the Lakers' top SportVU consultant -- are based in the home of the Lakers' biggest rival: Boston.

"Just so you know, he's born and raised in Southern California, not Boston," Kupchak said of their top SportVU consultant, whom we'll call Jack. (The Lakers declined to reveal the identity of their analytics staffers, provide much information about them or allow them to be interviewed.)

Jack attended graduate school at UCLA with Kupchak. "He's somewhat of a basketball fan," Kupchak said. They stayed in touch over the years and talked about analytics, eventually discussing the type of person an NBA team needs to hire for such a task. The topic came up as SportVU started to become more and more available; all 30 teams had access to it beginning in the 2013-14 season. "And then he was able to say, this is the kind of person that you need," Kupchak said.

Kupchak said he hired Jack about two years ago.

Jack keeps in touch with the two SportVU staffers in L.A. through conference calls and visits. The other employee in Boston, Kupchak said, is tasked with helping break down the data into a more digestible form. The Lakers' other two analytics staffers are former Lakers coach Rudy Tomjanovich and his son, Trey, both of whom are based in L.A. Kupchak said Rudy has worked in a "statistics-based analysis role" for several years with the team, working with more conventional stats, such as information found in box scores, and also using NBA.com's StatsCube, the league's official advanced statistical analysis tool.

Another element is Lakers executive vice president Jim Buss, who in a 2012 interview with ESPN.com said he has a "defensive rating, basically, that involves the offense, defense and then the impact depending on how much they play." It's a formula that Buss said then that he developed himself. "I'm up to all hours of the night doing numbers. Trying to tweak it. Trying to get it better. Seeing if it truly [corresponds]," he said in the interview. It's unclear what involvement -- if any -- Buss has with the Lakers' day-to-day analytics operations. (The Lakers declined to make Buss available for an interview.)" - EPSN

Their analytics department isn't just about Rudy and son looking at +/- numbers. Is it as in depth as other teams? No, that's true. How do you explain all the shitty teams that are using complex analytics? Did analytics help Cleveland make it to the finals or was it Lebron? Great players and deep teams are still necessary to win, regardless of how complex your analytics department is. The Lakers don't have that now.

I'll give you that management failed in their pursuit of FAs these last two summers, but you do have to take into account the context of each individual situation. Carmelo was blown away by the Lakers presentation. He went with the money. The Lakers were not Aldridge's top choice. They failed to convince him it should be. Not surprising given his age, desire to win a championship, and the comparative rosters of the Lakers versus the Spurs. DeAndre was always considered a long shot.

I'm not changing face. Of course I'd rather see Aldridge or DeAndre sign. I'm not going to get emotional over it but rather understand the realism of individual situations.

That article you cut and pasted an excerpt is from ESPN where they highlighted how behind the Lakers are. Yes, its more than just Rudy and son. But its 6 people some of whom aren't even on site. It pails in comparison to other teams. You're undervaluing the role analytics plays not just with on court stuff but also decision making with roster building. Having a shitty roster doesn't devalue the empirical data. All teams have access to loads of raw data that details not only their own team but others as well. From that, its up to them to create various models and metrics to show strength and weaknesses of their own team, other teams, and also point out strength and weaknesses of individual players. Armed with that you can do everything from game planning, tailor specific lineups, to finding free agents that could fit what you're trying to do. It's not an end all be all, but its a tool that goes hand in hand with making a better basketball team. To use a rough analogy, its the computer entering the workspace. Sure, you can still do work the old way, but the new way came along to give you greater perspective, open up more possibilities, and make things more efficient. The Lakers are one of the very few teams that have been late to even begin this. There's no good reason for them to be behind. They were and to some degree just voluntarily denying themselves advantages and opportunities. It's not like they have to pinch pennies or the doors will close. The Aldridge stuff should be a good wake up call. You're a basketball team and its time to start doing everything in your power to sell basketball. Analytics is a big part of that now. It's time to catch up.

Back to free agents, yeah, in a vacuum, you can look at and find reasons for each individual situation. But this isn't the case. This happened over the course of years, all similar stories (not verbatim, but similar) all with the same outcome. Whiff. That can't be written off when landing at least one of those guys was a central part of the post Howard/Nash/Kobe/Pau team. I'm not overly emotional about it either. It's not like its ruined my day and I'm unproductive. But I think its silly for fans, many of whom were all about the plan and the A tier free agents before, to just shrug off the failure and act like none of that was ever really all that important to begin with. It's revisionist.

 

[Kold]

Man, the "it's Kobe's fault" narrative is soo tired in this day and age. We have a young nucleus, that's why things aren't going the way they want them too. Look, let's switch the situation. Let's say the Spurs had a "glitz and glamour" meeting with Aldridge.....but do you know what's facts at the end of all of that? The Spurs have been in contention for forever it seems, they have a team ready to win the title, they have a budding star in Kawhi Leonard, they have a Grade A organization, and they have the best coach in the game in Gregg Popovich. So at the end of the day, who cares about the meeting when you know they're a title contender this year? With us, we have a team that's not quite ready for title contention, and we have a young nucleus. Lastly, couple that with the Buss's, Mitch, and Kobe Bryant, and you have three VERY EASY targets to make headlines about

 

[Retroram52]

When you are immensely successful, you are a target for criticism, Kold. Goes with the territory. You'd think people would be appreciative and genuinely happy for that type of success but the opposite is true.

The Lakers have made many enemies over the years with all of that winning and the same goes for Kobe. When they are down or saying goodbye, people generate attention on a microscopic basis and much of it has the value of tits on a bull.

 

[trojanfan12]

Man, the "it's Kobe's fault" narrative is soo tired in this day and age. We have a young nucleus, that's why things aren't going the way they want them too. Look, let's switch the situation. Let's say the Spurs had a "glitz and glamour" meeting with Aldridge.....but do you know what's facts at the end of all of that? The Spurs have been in contention for forever it seems, they have a team ready to win the title, they have a budding star in Kawhi Leonard, they have a Grade A organization, and they have the best coach in the game in Gregg Popovich. So at the end of the day, who cares about the meeting when you know they're a title contender this year? With us, we have a team that's not quite ready for title contention, and we have a young nucleus. Lastly, couple that with the Buss's, Mitch, and Kobe Bryant, and you have three VERY EASY targets to make headlines about

It's just folks being intellectually lazy and grabbing low hanging fruit. Doing anything other than blaming Kobe would require actually taking a logical look at the situation and that's simply too much work for most.

 

[shopson67]

Who screwed up what in the LMA meetings doesn't really matter. Even if they aced it, why would LMA choose the Lakers over the Spurs? He already lives in LA, so you can't sell him on the location. The Spurs are reloaded AND have the cap space to sign him. He steps right in and makes a perennial contender even better, and eventually takes the reigns from Duncan. Lakers have some strong unproven prospects, a legend at the end of his career, cap space, and are coming off their two worst seasons ever. It's a very easy choice.

My question with all of this is why even look elsewhere? Why take two meetings with the Lakers? The money is even better in the Spurs situation (tax advantages). If he doesn't pick the Spurs, something is rotten in the state of Denmark...

 

[Black Adam]

It's just folks being intellectually lazy and grabbing low hanging fruit. Doing anything other than blaming Kobe would require actually taking a logical look at the situation and that's simply too much work for most.

naw, it's ALL Kobe's fault. so was Jimmy Hoffa, Katrina, and Mt St. Helens...

Kobe is also being investigated for being the cause of Cancer...

 

[Louie26]

naw, it's ALL Kobe's fault. so was Jimmy Hoffa, Katrina, and Mt St. Helens...

Kobe is also being investigated for being the cause of Cancer...

Wasn't he involved with Al Quaida?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Wasn't he involved with Al Quaida?

No, ISIS