The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[msgkings322]

"You're wrong because I said so."
Signed,
LeBron fans

Come on back "when" you have some facts/substance to back up your empty opinion.

Make me

 

[Wamu]

LeBron has the Longevity edge on Jordan... and? So does Karl Malone, Jabbar, Kobe, etc. Why aren't we vehemently arguing GOAT status for all of them? Because there's a LOT more than just longevity to the GOAT equation... and as I detailed THOROUGHLY in this thread, LeBron isn't close to Jordan as a "total package".

If you disagree, refute what I wrote.

Look at what LeBron averaged in year 20 compared to those others.

Records are meant to be broken but I doubt this one ever will. Averaging at least 25 ppg for 20 consecutive seasons. Wanna take a guess at who did that? And at 40 LeBron averaged 24.4 this season.

 

[MAGA2024]

Why is it that only LeBron gets criticized for playing for multiple teams? It's no different than how he gets blamed for flopping yet flopping in the league goes back to the 1960's.

KD joined a team he couldn't beat that were the 2x defending WC champs with the 2x league MVP. Then he leaves a dynasty to team up with Harden & Kyrie. Gets the HC fired then demanded a trade.

AD quit on New Orleans. Jimmy Buckets quit on the Heat. Harden quit on the Rockets, Nets & 76ers. Kyrie quit on the Cavs, Celtics and Nets.

All players mentioned are HOFers. Odd you only gotta issue with one player though.

1. Has anyone said MJ isn't the GOAT? I haven't seen that yet.

I got MJ as the GOAT.

Most likely because no one is comparing KD, AD, Butler, Kyrie etc to Jordan, or claiming they're on MJ's level (or better).

 

[MAGA2024]

Make me

lol... whatever. You're just being silly now.

Carry on if you must.

 

[PolarVortex]

Referee favoritism his entire career. MJ is not the GOAT. When you backwards dribble your ass into the defender's dick, who is standing absolutely still, and the ref calls a foul on the defender...folks, that is called referee favoritism, and I witnessed that at least 500 times. A true GOAT does not need ref help.

 

[msgkings322]

lol... whatever. You're just being silly now.

Carry on if you must.

It’s all you deserve

 

[trojanfan12]

LeBron has the Longevity edge on Jordan... and? So does Karl Malone, Jabbar, Kobe, etc. Why aren't we vehemently arguing GOAT status for all of them? Because there's a LOT more than just longevity to the GOAT equation... and as I detailed THOROUGHLY in this thread, LeBron isn't close to Jordan as a "total package".

If you disagree, refute what I wrote.

lol

Who said there wasn't more than longevity involved?

Oh yeah...no one.

When you have to make up shit no one has said and try to argue that...you've lost.

Fortunately, for the sake of the entertainment you provide...you're not smart enough to realize that and will continue to clown yourself.

 

[MAGA2024]

Look at what LeBron averaged in year 20 compared to those others.

Records are meant to be broken but I doubt this one ever will. Averaging at least 25 ppg for 20 consecutive seasons. Wanna take a guess at who did that? And at 40 LeBron averaged 24.4 this season.

Already conceded LeBron is the GOAT of "Longevity"... but "stats" are only one (1) facet of the debate.

I mean, if 25-PPG in "every" season is the standard fine. But Jabbar and Malone averaged 26 PPG over a 17 year span, and likely would have done it 19-20 years if skipping College was the thing back in their day.

GOAT level Scoring + Winning (as the undisputed best/most Valuable player on your team) combined? None of those 3 can touch Jordan's dominance... add in Defensive dominance (and many other facets which I touched on in this thread), and the gap grows wider and wider in Jordan's favor.

 

[MAGA2024]

It’s all you deserve

You can't refute fact and truth, so you deflect instead... I understand

 

[MAGA2024]

lol

Who said there wasn't more than longevity involved?

Oh yeah...no one.

When you have to make up shit no one has said and try to argue that...you've lost.

Fortunately, for the sake of the entertainment you provide...you're not smart enough to realize that and will continue to clown yourself.

I never said "no one said", fool... I simply said it as a matter-of-fact.

So LeBron has the longevity edge. Wonderful!

Jordan has the edge in everything else.

Next.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Already conceded LeBron is the GOAT of "Longevity"...

So what the fuck are you arguing lol

 

[msgkings322]

You can't refute fact and truth, so you deflect instead... I understand

Not deflecting. Ignoring. You are beneath me and not worth my time.

 

[PolarVortex]

Basketball, probably more than football, baseball, or hockey, when identifying the GOAT, is more dependent upon the position the player played and the era in which he played. If you want to call Jordan the GOAT of point guards during his time in the NBA, you would get no argument from me. But all players of all positions, all time? No. Too many variables involved.

 

[Wamu]

Already conceded LeBron is the GOAT of "Longevity"... but "stats" are only one (1) facet of the debate.

I mean, if 25-PPG in "every" season is the standard fine. But Jabbar and Malone averaged 26 PPG over a 17 year span, and likely would have done it 19-20 years if skipping College was the thing back in their day.

GOAT level Scoring + Winning (as the undisputed best/most Valuable player on your team) combined? None of those 3 can touch Jordan's dominance... add in Defensive dominance (and many other facets which I touched on in this thread), and the gap grows wider and wider in Jordan's favor.

Now this is a doozy. You should look stats up before saying anything. I said 25+ points for 20 consecutive seasons.

Malone averaged at least 25 ppg for 11 consecutive seasons and 12 total.

Kareem averaged at least 25 ppg for 9 seasons and 10 total.

"none of those three can touch Jordan's dominance."

Already have told you multiple times now I have MJ as the GOAT. Why don't you pay attention?

Is there a problem with your brain? Because it doesn't seem to work properly.

 

[Wamu]

Basketball, probably more than football, baseball, or hockey, when identifying the GOAT, is more dependent upon the position the player played and the era in which he played. If you want to call Jordan the GOAT of point guards during his time in the NBA, you would get no argument from me. But all players of all positions, all time? No. Too many variables involved.

"If you want to call Jordan the GOAT of point guards"

Do you honestly think anyone has ever called MJ the GOAT of point guards?

 

[Wamu]

So what the fuck are you arguing lol

He doesn't even know. He's called me a LeBron nut-hugger before yet chooses to ignore I have MJ as the GOAT.

Maybe he eats crayons? Would explain why his brain don't work right.

 

[msgkings322]

Basketball, probably more than football, baseball, or hockey, when identifying the GOAT, is more dependent upon the position the player played and the era in which he played. If you want to call Jordan the GOAT of point guards during his time in the NBA, you would get no argument from me. But all players of all positions, all time? No. Too many variables involved.

This post would have more credibility if you didn’t mistakenly call Jordan a point guard.

But the sentiment is correct in that all GOAT debates are not really resolvable for the reasons you state. Different eras, positions, teammates, rules, coaches, opponents, etc. There’s no definitive “proof” one all time great was ‘greater’ than another

What most reasonable people do is make tiers where a few players can all be considered that level, with the tippy top level for basketball being MJ Kareem LeBron for sure with cases to be made for Magic or Wilt there too. At that point it’s just personal preference.

It’s amusing the people that take it so personally that they go on for days with emotional and irrational screeds why their guy is no doubt obviously GOAT

But that’s also part of the fun of sports, the arguing

 

[Battlelyon]

LeBron James is LeBron James and Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. LeBron can have the stats but it doesn't make him the GOAT.

LeBron has struggled in the Finals, going 0-7 in game-winning/tying field goals.

 

[PolarVortex]

"If you want to call Jordan the GOAT of point guards"

Do you honestly think anyone has ever called MJ the GOAT of point guards?

Yes. I did...of his era.

 

[PolarVortex]

This post would have more credibility if you didn’t mistakenly call Jordan a point guard.\

More blah blah blah from a guy who fancies himself as a troll. LMFAO. No self-respecting troll ever claimed to be a troll. Get a clue. (Didn't read any further than this.)

But the sentiment is correct in that all GOAT debates are not really resolvable for the reasons you state. Different eras, positions, teammates, rules, coaches, opponents, etc. There’s no definitive “proof” one all time great was ‘greater’ than another

What most reasonable people do is make tiers where a few players can all be considered that level, with the tippy top level for basketball being MJ Kareem LeBron for sure with cases to be made for Magic or Wilt there too. At that point it’s just personal preference.

It’s amusing the people that take it so personally that they go on for days with emotional and irrational screeds why their guy is no doubt obviously GOAT

But that’s also part of the fun of sports, the arguing