Series Thread: 5) Indiana Pacers vs. 4) Philadelphia 76ers

[trojanfan12]

lmao. I look like the dumbass and you think they are statistically even? lmao.

Didn't say they were even, I said they were very close and posted the statistics.

Congrats on completing the Quad looking like a dumbass.

 

[Black Adam]

holy fucking shit. Ingram is a better 3 shooter. Never disputed that, Simmons being better than him at literally ever other aspect of the game, is I guess what Lakers fans don't see.

STILL trying to get the response YOU wanna hear, I see...

do try to have a nice day...

 

[Wamu]

STILL trying to get the response YOU wanna hear, I see...

do try to have a nice day...

You pickin' on people again? I'd go back & read some comments to catch up but I just don't want to do that. I miss Lavar Ball. Hopefully for next season TNT's inside the NBA replaces Shaq w/ Papa Ball. I give it 2 shows before Barkley kicks the shit outta him.

 

[Sparhawk]

In terms of TPA efficiency, it’s not really that close.
You can easily find Ingram and Simmons.

 

[trojanfan12]

They really are though. You know simple stats don't tell the whole story. Here are a few of the major advanced stats.

Simmons:
TS%: 55.8%
PER: 20.1
Win shares: 9.0
Defensive win shares: 4.7
Win shares per 48: .168

Ingram
TS%: 53.6%
PER: 13.9
Win shares: 2.8
Defensive win shares: 1.8
Win shares per 48: .068

Not close at all. I get that Laker fans are happy with Ingram. You should be. He is a nice player. Simmons is a rising superstar though. And you know full well that if the Sixers offered Simmons for Ingram, the Lakers would jump on it in a second and figure out the fit later.

I thought this conversation was silly last summer, but even more so now. Nobody is saying Ingram isn't good, but he ain't on Ben Simmons level now, and probably won't ever be.

Some of those stats are due to Simmons being on a better team.
I'm not saying that Ingram is better or even the same as Simmons. Just that he fits better with the current Lakers and what they do. Also, that the difference isn't quiteas drastic as some think.

I also said that if Simmons had been available for them, the Lakers would have taken him. At that time, Simmons would have been a better fit as well, because the point guard they had was Russell, who was better suited to play the 2. Simmons wasn't available, so the Lakers took the next best guy and have no complaints.

I don't get why people are trying to turn this into something it never was. Lakers fans have said that Ingram is a better fit, not that he's a better player.

 

[tlance]

Some of those stats are due to Simmons being on a better team.
I'm not saying that Ingram is better or even the same as Simmons. Just that he fits better with the current Lakers and what they do. Also, that the difference isn't quiteas drastic as some think.

I also said that if Simmons had been available for them, the Lakers would have taken him. At that time, Simmons would have been a better fit as well, because the point guard they had was Russell, who was better suited to play the 2. Simmons wasn't available, so the Lakers took the next best guy and have no complaints.

I don't get why people are trying to turn this into something it never was. Lakers fans have said that Ingram is a better fit, not that he's a better player.

I get that and agree with both the fit part and the win shares.

From a neutral perspective though, it seems like the two sides are arguing different things and both claiming the other is wrong. The reality as I see it is that both sides are right to a point and this argument is pretty silly. Now kiss and make up!

 

[Black Adam]

You pickin' on people again? I'd go back & read some comments to catch up but I just don't want to do that. I miss Lavar Ball. Hopefully for next season TNT's inside the NBA replaces Shaq w/ Papa Ball. I give it 2 shows before Barkley kicks the shit outta him.

Lol, I swear it ain't my fault this time, bro...

I'm innocent...

 

[trojanfan12]

I get that and agree with both the fit part and the win shares.

From a neutral perspective though, it seems like the two sides are arguing different things and both claiming the other is wrong. The reality as I see it is that both sides are right to a point and this argument is pretty silly. Now kiss and make up!

Completely agree.

As I've said, I think both teams have plenty to be happy about and a couple of things to be concerned about with each player. If the picks were reversed, I think it would be the same.

 

[ericd7633]

Didn't say they were even, I said they were very close and posted the statistics.

Congrats on completing the Quad looking like a dumbass.

They aren't though. @tlance proved it.

 

[ericd7633]

STILL trying to get the response YOU wanna hear, I see...

do try to have a nice day...

I'm not trying to get anything out of you...you can continue to look like a dumbass, it's fine with me.

 

[Black Adam]

I get that and agree with both the fit part and the win shares.

From a neutral perspective though, it seems like the two sides are arguing different things and both claiming the other is wrong. The reality as I see it is that both sides are right to a point and this argument is pretty silly. Now kiss and make up!

1) they ain't my type...

2) i'm married...

just sayin'...

 

[Black Adam]

I'm not trying to get anything out of you...you can continue to look like a dumbass, it's fine with me.

looks like YOU'RE the one wearing the dunce hat bro. nice fit...

 

[flyerhawk]

Statistically, they are not on different levels at all. Simmons gets more publicity because his team is in the playoff hunt.

You think that's it? Let's look at the stats.

Ingram: per game 17.3 points 3.9 assists 5.3 rebounds .6 steals .5 blocks 13.9 PER 2.8 WS -1.3 BPM
Simmons : per game 16 points 8.2 assists 8.4 rebounds 1.7 steals .7 blocks 20 PER 9 WS 4.6 BPM.

So Ingram scores slightly more frequently. Simmons has double the assists, 50% more rebounds, triple the steals, and his advanced stats are dramatically better.

So if we ignore all stats except for PPG then they are statistically similar.

Both players have plenty to work on if they intend to ever reach their peak. Each player looks like a great fit for his team. I don't think either fanbase will be disappointed with who they have.

I think you would find a very few basketball people that would argue that they are on similar arcs. That isn't a knock on Ingram who certainly dramatically improved this season over last season and looks like he could be a legitimately very good player. But Simmons is already a national name who has a legitimate shot at making All-NBA, as a rookie.

 

[trojanfan12]

They aren't though. @tlance proved it.

Actually, he didn't and agreed that the win shares are skewed a bit by the Sixers being a better team. He also said the same thing I did, which is that each side is arguing something different and saying the other side is wrong.

As I've said repeatedly (as have other Lakers fans), Ingram is a better fit for the Lakers. Better fit, dioes not equal better player (which is what Philly fans want to argue).

Personally, I don't care who the better player is. I care about who the better fit is. OKC has arguably one of the most talented rosters in the league, but the pieces don't really fit, so they could possibly miss the playoffs and likely won't be higher than a 6 seed if they do.

As I've also said repeatedly, both sides have plenty to be happy about with each player and a couple of things to be concerned about. If the picks were reversed, things would be the same.

 

[flyerhawk]

Some of those stats are due to Simmons being on a better team.
I'm not saying that Ingram is better or even the same as Simmons. Just that he fits better with the current Lakers and what they do. Also, that the difference isn't quiteas drastic as some think.

I also said that if Simmons had been available for them, the Lakers would have taken him. At that time, Simmons would have been a better fit as well, because the point guard they had was Russell, who was better suited to play the 2. Simmons wasn't available, so the Lakers took the next best guy and have no complaints.

I don't get why people are trying to turn this into something it never was. Lakers fans have said that Ingram is a better fit, not that he's a better player.

I wasn't getting involved in the silly PhoenixEagles stuff. IMO, it's perfectly fine for fans to argue that their player is better when you are speculating about future results and dredging up old comments before we had any evidence on the court is unfair.

I only got involved at the tail end when some folks were trying to argue that the fit somehow balances out ability. It doesn't.

Ingram is a better fit for the Lakers right now because of personnel. If the Lakers had the No. 1 pick 2 years ago they would have taken Simmons and probably Tatum this year. But your point about fit is about commitment to draft picks. Style of play wise, Simmons most certainly would fit with the Lakers as well as Ingram.

 

[flyerhawk]

Actually, he didn't and agreed that the win shares are skewed a bit by the Sixers being a better team. He also said the same thing I did, which is that each side is arguing something different and saying the other side is wrong.

You said that they were statistically similar. They aren't. They are similar with one stat, scoring. They aren't similar in any other stat.

 

[trojanfan12]

You think that's it? Let's look at the stats.

Ingram: per game 17.3 points 3.9 assists 5.3 rebounds .6 steals .5 blocks 13.9 PER 2.8 WS -1.3 BPM
Simmons : per game 16 points 8.2 assists 8.4 rebounds 1.7 steals .7 blocks 20 PER 9 WS 4.6 BPM.

So Ingram scores slightly more frequently. Simmons has double the assists, 50% more rSo, ebounds, triple the steals, and his advanced stats are dramatically better.

So if we ignore all stats except for PPG then they are statistically similar.

Simmons is supposed to have more assists, he's the point guard. The Lakers have Lonzo to play point. Simmons also should have more rebounds than Ingram, it's more of his role than Ingrams. Ingram is a perimeter player.

I notice you also cherry picked and left out that Ingram free throw shooting is at 70% compared to Simmons 56% and Ingram shoots 39% from 3 compared to 0.0% for Simmons. Free throw shooting and 3 point shooting are also important parts of the game.

Again, I'm not sure why you Philly fans are trying to turn this into a discussion that it never was. Not one Lakers fan has said Ingram is better. We have all said that he's a better fit for the Lakers. Not sure what is so difficult to understand.

It's like none of you understand the concept of fit.

 

[trojanfan12]

I only got involved at the tail end when some folks were trying to argue that the fit somehow balances out ability. It doesn't.

Literally no one said it did. But fit is extremely important and does balance it out to an extent. If it didn't, OKC should be a much better team than they are.

Ingram is a better fit for the Lakers right now because of personnel. If the Lakers had the No. 1 pick 2 years ago they would have taken Simmons

I literally have said this at least 3 times.

I'll say it a 4th.

If the Lakers had the #1 pick in that draft, they would have taken Simmons. Simmons would have been the better fit because the Lakers point guard at that time was D'Angelo Russell who was better suited to play the 2. The Lakers didn't have the #1 pick, so they took the next best guy...Ingram.

Now that the Lakers have Lonzo, Ingram is a better fit.

Again, don't understand why you Sixers fans are trying to make this discussion into something it wasn't.

 

[flyerhawk]

Simmons is supposed to have more assists, he's the point guard. The Lakers have Lonzo to play point. Simmons also should have more rebounds than Ingram, it's more of his role than Ingrams. Ingram is a perimeter player.

Arguing that Simmons should have more rebounds and assists than Ingram is kinda besides the point. You said that they are statistically similar. They aren't.

I notice you also cherry picked and left out that Ingram free throw shooting is at 70% compared to Simmons 56% and Ingram shoots 39% from 3 compared to 0.0% for Simmons. Free throw shooting and 3 point shooting are also important parts of the game.

I didn't cherry pick. I didn't use any rate measurements. Free throw shooting and 3 point shooting are subsets of scoring. It's not like I brought up Simmons 54% FG% compared to Ingram's 47%.

Again, I'm not sure why you Philly fans are trying to turn this into a discussion that it never was. Not one Lakers fan has said Ingram is better. We have all said that he's a better fit for the Lakers. Not sure what is so difficult to understand.

It's like none of you understand the concept of fit.

I'm not arguing with you on that point. I disagree with your claim that the two players are statistically similar. They aren't. Unless you are going to grade on a curve and say that Simmons is supposed to get more rebounds and more assists and more steals so we should just equalize the two on those counts.

If I were a Lakers fan I would be excited about having Ingram on your team. He's an exciting young player. And if he can bulk up and get stronger he could be a really dangerous player. I have no interest in disparaging him. But right now people are comparing Simmons to Magic and Lebron and Oscar Robertson for a reason.

 

[flyerhawk]

Literally no one said it did. But fit is extremely important and does balance it out to an extent. If it didn't, OKC should be a much better team than they are.



I literally have said this at least 3 times.

I'll say it a 4th.

If the Lakers had the #1 pick in that draft, they would have taken Simmons. Simmons would have been the better fit because the Lakers point guard at that time was D'Angelo Russell who was better suited to play the 2. The Lakers didn't have the #1 pick, so they took the next best guy...Ingram.

Now that the Lakers have Lonzo, Ingram is a better fit.

Again, don't understand why you Sixers fans are trying to make this discussion into something it wasn't.

I know you said it. I wasn't arguing with you on that front. In fact, I'm not arguing about who the better player is. I was only arguing about your claim that they were statistically similar.