Series Thread: 5) Indiana Pacers vs. 4) Philadelphia 76ers

[Black Adam]

Point was I didn't say one was BETTER than the other. but thanks for playing...

 

[ericd7633]

Point was I didn't say one was BETTER than the other. but thanks for playing...

Who do you think is better? Ingram or Simmons? If you say Simmons, you come off looking like a dumbass because you said you'd rather have Ingram. If you say Ingram is better, you come off looking like a dumbass because it's pretty obvious he isn't better. I guess either way you're going to look like a dumbass.

 

[trojanfan12]

So you wouldn’t trade Ingram, Ball and more for Simmons. I said Simmons would be way better. You guys posted nonsense like “we would rather have Ingram”, now Simmons looks like 10 times the player Ingram is and your gonna play semantics.

None of those quotes said what you claim. You have 2 choices, find a quote that says what you claim, or stfu.

As for Ingram and Simmons. Simmons is a better fit for the Sixers. Ingram fits the Lakers system better.

Many times, it's not about who is the better player, it's about who is the better fit for a specific team. The Lakers have a point guard to run their offense...They need guys who can fit around that and take advantage of his skill at running it. Ingram is a great fit for that because he doesn't need the ball and can both get to the hoop and hit the 3.

The Sixers didn't/don't have the point guard they need. So Simmons, with his ability to play "point forward" is a great fit for them and means they don't need a "point guard" because he's it. This gives them great flexibility in their lineup.

In short, each team got a player that provides exactly what they need. If they switched teams, both would still be very good, neither would likely be able to use all of their skills. At least not consistently.

If the Lakers had the first pick, they likely would have taken Simmons because, at that time, they didn't have the point guard they needed to run their offense. Simmons wasn't available, so they took Ingram and got the point guard in this past draft. I say likely because, at the time, Short Buss was still running things, so we're lucky he didn't fuck this up.

As individual players, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Ingram is a better shooter and probably a slightly better defender (although he's still too damn skinny to be as good as he could be).

Simmons has better handles, court vision and is the better passer.

Considering that Ingram is more of a wing player, rebounding skills are about even.

Statistically speaking this season, they are very close.

Ingram averages 16.1 ppg. 5.3 rpg. 3.9 apg. 47% FG, 39% 3ptFG, 70% FT

Simmons averages 16.0 ppg, 8.2 rpg. 8.2 apg, 54% FG, 0.0% 3ptFG, 56% FT

Neither player is close to as good as he can be and have plenty to work on. If Simmons wants to be "the next Magic" he's going to have to improve his free throw shooting and develop at least a serviceable outside shot.

Ingram needs to bulk up so that he can finish better at the rim and defend better against bigger players.

To claim that one is definitively better than the other at this point in their careers is pretty silly, imo. If they both put in the work, both will be stars and both fanbases will be very happy with who they got.

 

[trojanfan12]

Who do you think is better? Ingram or Simmons? If you say Simmons, you come off looking like a dumbass because you said you'd rather have Ingram. If you say Ingram is better, you come off looking like a dumbass because it's pretty obvious he isn't better. I guess either way you're going to look like a dumbass.

And you show that you have a lack of understanding about "fit". Which makes you look like a dumbass.

 

[trojanfan12]

Look above and apologize!

You still have found nothing to back up your claim. Everyone of those comments was about fit. Which is exactly what Lakers fans said.

This means, it's time for you to stfu.

 

[Black Adam]

Who do you think is better? Ingram or Simmons? If you say Simmons, you come off looking like a dumbass because you said you'd rather have Ingram. If you say Ingram is better, you come off looking like a dumbass because it's pretty obvious he isn't better. I guess either way you're going to look like a dumbass.

trying to put words in my mouth. guess YOU look like the dumbass...

move on...

 

[flyerhawk]

Ingram looks like he could be a very good player. Perhaps even an all-star if he can bulk up a bit.

Ben Simmons is already an all-star level player and he could be a once in a generation player.

Things could certainly change. Ingram could turn into a taller Kobe and Simmons may never develop an outside shot of any kind and teams figure out how to defend him. But right now they are at different levels.

 

[Black Adam]

Ingram looks like he could be a very good player. Perhaps even an all-star if he can bulk up a bit.

Ben Simmons is already an all-star level player and he could be a once in a generation player.

Things could certainly change. Ingram could turn into a taller Kobe and Simmons may never develop an outside shot of any kind and teams figure out how to defend him. But right now they are at different levels.

at least you get that now is too soon to place definitive judgement on either player, which I can respect...

 

[trojanfan12]

Ingram looks like he could be a very good player. Perhaps even an all-star if he can bulk up a bit.

Ben Simmons is already an all-star level player and he could be a once in a generation player.

Things could certainly change. Ingram could turn into a taller Kobe and Simmons may never develop an outside shot of any kind and teams figure out how to defend him. But right now they are at different levels.

Statistically, they are not on different levels at all. Simmons gets more publicity because his team is in the playoff hunt.

Both players have plenty to work on if they intend to ever reach their peak. Each player looks like a great fit for his team. I don't think either fanbase will be disappointed with who they have.

 

[ericd7633]

And you show that you have a lack of understanding about "fit". Which makes you look like a dumbass.

lmao. So having a guy make .7 3 pointers a game makes him a much better fit. lmao.

 

[ericd7633]

trying to put words in my mouth. guess YOU look like the dumbass...

move on...

You specifically said you'd take Ingram. I just came to my conclusion based off of that.

 

[ericd7633]

Statistically, they are not on different levels at all. Simmons gets more publicity because his team is in the playoff hunt.

Both players have plenty to work on if they intend to ever reach their peak. Each player looks like a great fit for his team. I don't think either fanbase will be disappointed with who they have.

 

[trojanfan12]

lmao. So having a guy make .7 3 pointers a game makes him a much better fit. lmao.

And now you've managed to double down on looking like a dumbass. Congrats. Let's see if you can complete the hat trick.

 

[trojanfan12]

Congrats on completing the hat trick.

 

[Black Adam]

You specifically said you'd take Ingram. I just came to my conclusion based off of that.

LMFAO you crack me up...

what part of "fit" aren't you getting...?

Are you telling me he WASN'T the better shooter coming outta college...?

some Philly fans, I swear...

 

[trojanfan12]

LMFAO you crack me up...

what part of "fit" aren't you getting...?

Are you telling me he WASN'T the better shooter coming outta college...?

some Philly fans, I swear...

Exactly.

Look, if these guys fulfill what their potential looks to be, years from now this could be like the Magic/Bird debate. Not saying they definitely get there, but who knows?

Both all time greats, both first ballot Hall of Famers. Magic was a better fit for the Lakers, Bird was perfect for the Celtics.

Both fanbases love and couldn't be happier with who they got.

Had Bird gone to the Lakers and Magic to the Celtics...both fanbases would be just as happy.

 

[ericd7633]

Congrats on completing the hat trick.

View attachment 177195

lmao. I look like the dumbass and you think they are statistically even? lmao.

 

[tlance]

Statistically, they are not on different levels at all. Simmons gets more publicity because his team is in the playoff hunt.

Both players have plenty to work on if they intend to ever reach their peak. Each player looks like a great fit for his team. I don't think either fanbase will be disappointed with who they have.

They really are though. You know simple stats don't tell the whole story. Here are a few of the major advanced stats.

Simmons:
TS%: 55.8%
PER: 20.1
Win shares: 9.0
Defensive win shares: 4.7
Win shares per 48: .168

Ingram
TS%: 53.6%
PER: 13.9
Win shares: 2.8
Defensive win shares: 1.8
Win shares per 48: .068

Not close at all. I get that Laker fans are happy with Ingram. You should be. He is a nice player. Simmons is a rising superstar though. And you know full well that if the Sixers offered Simmons for Ingram, the Lakers would jump on it in a second and figure out the fit later.

I thought this conversation was silly last summer, but even more so now. Nobody is saying Ingram isn't good, but he ain't on Ben Simmons level now, and probably won't ever be.

 

[ericd7633]

LMFAO you crack me up...

what part of "fit" aren't you getting...?

Are you telling me he WASN'T the better shooter coming outta college...?

some Philly fans, I swear...

holy fucking shit. Ingram is a better 3 shooter. Never disputed that, Simmons being better than him at literally ever other aspect of the game, is I guess what Lakers fans don't see.

 

[ericd7633]

They really are though. You know simple stats don't tell the whole story. Here are a few of the major advanced stats.

Simmons:
TS%: 55.8%
PER: 20.1
Win shares: 9.0
Defensive win shares: 4.7
Win shares per 48: .168

Ingram
TS%: 53.6%
PER: 13.9
Win shares: 2.8
Defensive win shares: 1.8
Win shares per 48: .068

Not close at all. I get that Laker fans are happy with Ingram. You should be. He is a nice player. Simmons is a rising superstar though. And you know full well that if the Sixers offered Simmons for Ingram, the Lakers would jump on it in a second and figure out the fit later.

I thought this conversation was silly last summer, but even more so now. Nobody is saying Ingram isn't good, but he ain't on Ben Simmons level now, and probably won't ever be.

Be careful he'll call you a dumbass.