Series Thread: 4 Atlanta Hawks (48-34) vs. 1 Cleveland Cavaliers (57-25)

[WiggyRuss]

I still cant get over that Delly was playing OVER 40 minutes in a Finals game...and that our bench was James Jones and Mike Miller and Jr SMith- AND IT WAS STILL sent to 6 games. lol. unbelievable....its why the LeBron MVP talk desepite being on the losing side was so loud.

Everyone with any sense realized how short handed and exhausted that Cavs team was....Griffin did a GREAT JOB of revamping the back of the bench- Delly and Thompson have kept getting better--- and the Cavs are healthy

you cant even BEGIN to compare the Cavs team that played Monday night to the Cavs team that was on the floor for games 4, 5, 6 of last years Finals....its not even CLOSE..

 

[gordontrue]

The Cavs lineup in game 4 of the Finals last year was:

James- 45
Mozgov- 9
TT- 40
Delly- 42
Shump- 37

bench
Mike Miller 14
James Jones 18
Jr Smith 36

Yeah. That's bad.

1 minute of James/Mozgov/TT/Delly/Shump defense >> 1 minute of James/TT/Love/JR/Irving defense. No question.

But no way is that lineup with those minutes better defensively than the Cavs current typical lineup/minutes. TT/Delly/Shump are the top 3 guys off the bench. They are getting very significant minutes.

Factor in fatigue, old scrubs being on the floor way too much, and the toll struggling offense takes on your defense... and no way is that lineup better defensively, imo.

 

[gordontrue]

Bottom line... its because they have a guy named LeBron.

The Cavs had a shot and went 6 games, even though that was their lineup... because they had LeBron.

The Cavs have a shot and would be competitive imo, even though the Warriors and Spurs are 2 of the greatest reg season teams ever... because they have LeBron.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah. That's bad.

1 minute of James/Mozgov/TT/Delly/Shump defense >> 1 minute of James/TT/Love/JR/Irving defense. No question.

But no way is that lineup with those minutes better defensively than the Cavs current typical lineup/minutes. TT/Delly/Shump are the top 3 guys off the bench. They are getting very significant minutes.

Factor in fatigue, old scrubs being on the floor way too much, and the toll struggling offense takes on your defense... and no way is that lineup better defensively, imo.

Yes and no. They are still better defensively, the problem is, they basically become the Bulls under Thibs. They play good enough defense to win games (hence the 2 they managed to win in the finals), but not good enough offense to win a series against a top team.

 

[bksballer89]

I still cant get over that Delly was playing OVER 40 minutes in a Finals game...and that our bench was James Jones and Mike Miller and Jr SMith- AND IT WAS STILL sent to 6 games. lol. unbelievable....its why the LeBron MVP talk desepite being on the losing side was so loud.

Everyone with any sense realized how short handed and exhausted that Cavs team was....Griffin did a GREAT JOB of revamping the back of the bench- Delly and Thompson have kept getting better--- and the Cavs are healthy

you cant even BEGIN to compare the Cavs team that played Monday night to the Cavs team that was on the floor for games 4, 5, 6 of last years Finals....its not even CLOSE..

Yeah now with Kyrie and Love playing 35+ minutes instead of those bums should guarantee that Cavs make quick work of the Warriors in 5 games at most

 

[trojanfan12]

Bottom line... its because they have a guy named LeBron.

The Cavs had a shot and went 6 games, even though that was their lineup... because they had LeBron.

The Cavs have a shot and would be competitive imo, even though the Warriors and Spurs are 2 of the greatest reg season teams ever... because they have LeBron.

That's why I think most give the Cavs at least a punchers chance.

 

[gordontrue]

Saw this chart and thought it was interesting. Looks like its just the playoffs, so small sample size. Millsap and LeBron 2 of the players that don't seem to be getting calls.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Saw this chart and thought it was interesting. Looks like its just the playoffs, so small sample size. Millsap and LeBron 2 of the players that don't seem to be getting calls.

View attachment 114278

LeBron gets the Shaq treatment...if they called the game to the ACTUAL RULES LeBron would be on the line for at least 15 foul shots a game...he gets hosed because of how big and strong and fast and agile he is...its a shame.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah now with Kyrie and Love playing 35+ minutes instead of those bums should guarantee that Cavs make quick work of the Warriors in 5 games at most

i wouldnt say that but it should certainly give them a much better shot than last year when they pushed it to 6..

 

[Shanemansj13]

LeBron gets the Shaq treatment...if they called the game to the ACTUAL RULES LeBron would be on the line for at least 15 foul shots a game...he gets hosed because of how big and strong and fast and agile he is...its a shame.

It's ridiculous honestly, if he doesn't start getting calls it will be hard to beat the best teams. I have seen multiple times, recently in game 1, where he got in the face and it was very noticeable and still no call. Not sure what he has to do to get a foul but it is getting ridiculous. If Steph gets calls for a little bump Lebron should be able to get calls for players acting hitting him. Insane.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I honestly think Cleveland 1st round opponent, Detroit, is a better team than both of Golden St's 1st and 2nd round opponents and the defense is far better. Golden St will not have a rest test until the WCF's, so honestly Curry will not have to play till then or they shouldn't. Golden St is playing very well regardless of their opponent.

 

[Heatles84]

Cavs defense was much better with those guys. Can't see them holding GSW to below 95 points with Kyrie & Love out there for nearly 40 minutes

This is what I've been trying to say. Thing is, yeah having Love and Irving in the lineup definitely helps your offense in scoring points - there's zero argument in there. However, you now sacrifice defense, something you don't want to do with the Warriors. Once Golden St. gets going, like we saw last night, it's an avalanche of three-pointers coming at you. That defense that Cleveland presented to Golden St. was awkward for them and took them out of their comfort zone for games 2 and 3 of that series. Golden St. eventually figured it out while also allowing depth to simply overwhelm the Cavs.

 

[Heatles84]

Cavs are currently ranked 11th in DEF EFF out of 16 teams. GSW is ranked #1.

They're not beating the Warriors nor Spurs playing this kind of defense

Look at the past 15 years of NBA champions, and tell me how many of those teams were ranked outside of the top 10 in DEF EFF.

 

[gordontrue]

Look at the past 15 years of NBA champions, and tell me how many of those teams were ranked outside of the top 10 in DEF EFF.

Again, those stats use reg season numbers... not 1st round playoff numbers.

Cavs are #4, #9 in the regular season.

 

[Heatles84]

Again, those stats use reg season numbers... not 1st round playoff numbers.

Cavs are #4, #9 in the regular season.

You'll have to show me where you're getting your stats. Here's where I'm getting mind (correction as Cleveland looks to be at #10):

Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN

 

[Shanemansj13]

Look at the past 15 years of NBA champions, and tell me how many of those teams were ranked outside of the top 10 in DEF EFF.

Well good bc they are 10

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is what I've been trying to say. Thing is, yeah having Love and Irving in the lineup definitely helps your offense in scoring points - there's zero argument in there. However, you now sacrifice defense, something you don't want to do with the Warriors. Once Golden St. gets going, like we saw last night, it's an avalanche of three-pointers coming at you. That defense that Cleveland presented to Golden St. was awkward for them and took them out of their comfort zone for games 2 and 3 of that series. Golden St. eventually figured it out while also allowing depth to simply overwhelm the Cavs.

how do they sacrifice defense when Irving and Love will be taking the minutes of the James Jone's, Mike Miller's, Mozgov's, Perkins/Marion, -and cutting the minutes of Delly, Shump etc which should only make those 2 MORE effective?

its just a total 100% fallacy that Irving and Love are replacing guys that were above average defensive players...after 35 minutes on the court- Delly SHOULD and DOES NEED time off- Shump too, Thompson, LeBron etc.

those minutes that Love and Irving are going to get are coming from- in last years Finals the back end bench guys that wouldnt have even played if they were healthy- not guysl ike Thompson and Delly who are STILL playing significant minutes when Love and Irving are healthy.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT we shall see wont we?

 

[WiggyRuss]

"Naturally, of course," James said following Cavs shootaround Wednesday morning, when asked the chance to play the Heat. "That's since I've came back. It'd be great to play against those guys in the postseason.

"Throughout my whole career, I've always wanted to go against [Dwyane] Wade in a playoff series. We've always talked about it even before we became teammates in '10. "It's not been heavy on my mind, but it's crossed my mind throughout my whole career." James, drafted No. 1, and Wade, drafted No. 5, entered the league as rookies together in 2003 and teamed up in Miami from 2010-14, making four straight trips to the Finals and winning two championships in that span.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let us have our HEat/Cavs series....i cant believe i was rooting for Heat in that game 7..i feel dirty...but i want this matchup to happen SO BAD...itll be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of fun. Maybe LeBron can force Riley into retirement! LOL.

 

[WiggyRuss]

CLEVELAND -- Last year, after making his biggest play to that point of the season, Cleveland Cavaliers forward LeBron James made a point of explaining how he overruled his head coach on what set to run for the final shot in a playoff win over the Chicago Bulls.

After carrying the Cavs over the final five minutes of another quality playoff win, this one over the Atlanta Hawks on Monday, James went out of his way to praise his head coach.
there continue to be moments when it becomes more clear how much stronger Lue's connection is with the Cavs' core players. Game 1 had several examples. The most vivid were from James, who on multiple occasions made sure to explain how Lue's actions were a factor in the victory:

• 
  On the strategy of focusing the defense on Hawks guard Kyle Korver, who got just one shot, and allowing Dennis Schroder a playoff career-high 27 points, James said: "We had a game plan, and we follow the game plan our coaching staff gives us."
  
  
• On what Lue did during second-half timeouts after the Cavs blew an 18-point lead: "Our coach and our coaching staff are very even keel, and we just try to stay in the moment. ... It's a calm feeling when you come to the sideline no matter if you've given up a lead or not."
  
  
• On adjustments that were made late in the game: "There's a game in between the game people don't see. It's up to us to follow the game plan the coach sets for us."
  

This is just not normal behavior from James, to look for ways to bring back attention to his coach. It's not as though that has never happened, but affirming the coach was not a part of the way he operated while playing for Blatt. For the time being -- and all coach-player relationships in the league are fragile and subject to sudden change -- James continues to display that he is invested in Lue's success.

Fair or not, deserved or not, that was rarely the case with Blatt.

Those within the team insist this is a product of Lue being more demanding and setting a tone of accountability within the team. And here is a prime example of how Lue has gone about his business: the Kevin Love conundrum.

One of the issues that plagued the Cavs was end-of-game distrust that frequently existed between Love, James and Kyrie Irving. It was normal for Love to have big first quarters but disappear in the fourth. And it was a compounding problem; Love often wasn't effective late, but Irving and James would often forget about him.

Lue attacked the issue from both ends by getting on James and Irving when they didn't involve Love. But he also got on Love for letting down just because he wasn't always getting the ball. This is the accountability he preached when he took the job after Blatt was fired.

It hasn't been an instant or perfect switch, but there has been progress. In Game 1, Love was mired in a bad shooting game as he went 4-of-17. But he was still active and involved in the fourth quarter, and Irving and James kept looking for him. Love ended up getting to the foul line five times and getting three rebounds down the stretch.

"He's the same way, no matter the point in the game," James said. "If we mess up, he gets on us, but he's always saying: 'OK, let's move on to the next possession. Let's figure out a way we can be better next possession.'"

Handling James is prickly. Those who know him believe he likes to be held accountable by his coach and he doesn't actually want to make all the decisions despite what the perception may be. But he also will challenge his coach to execute and will abandon the situation if he doesn't like the sales pitch. So that brings back the "I scratched it" moment from last season's playoffs, when James talked openly about overriding Blatt.

Lue is going in strong on the former, believing the way to get the most from James is to hold him to a standard. But he does it without wrath.

"I got it from Phil Jackson," Lue said. "I think just being even-keeled, being poised, staying with it, being positive with the guys. I think it's the best approach."





no doubt about it- Ty Lue is probably the first coach that LeBron James has actually liked and respected in his entire career.

 

[Heatles84]

how do they sacrifice defense when Irving and Love will be taking the minutes of the James Jone's, Mike Miller's, Mozgov's, Perkins/Marion, -and cutting the minutes of Delly, Shump etc which should only make those 2 MORE effective?

its just a total 100% fallacy that Irving and Love are replacing guys that were above average defensive players...after 35 minutes on the court- Delly SHOULD and DOES NEED time off- Shump too, Thompson, LeBron etc.

those minutes that Love and Irving are going to get are coming from- in last years Finals the back end bench guys that wouldnt have even played if they were healthy- not guysl ike Thompson and Delly who are STILL playing significant minutes when Love and Irving are healthy.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT we shall see wont we?

Love and Irving are subpar defenders. Trojan mentioned it earlier, Lue's going to have to figure out how to balance the minutes. Delly and Mozgov are actually good defenders, along with Shumpert. Cavs were a much better defensive team without Love and Irving which forced Golden St. into awkward positions.

But yes, the Finals are a month away and the Spurs/Warriors (OKC has an outside chance) are waiting on the other side and all over our debates will be settled soon.