Series Thread: 4 Atlanta Hawks (48-34) vs. 1 Cleveland Cavaliers (57-25)

[gordontrue]

Cavs defense was much better with those guys.

With James Jones and Mike Miller?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Much better with James Jones, Mike Miller, an old Perkins. Yes, some guys did play better defense but the offense was much worse, like a lot worse.

for some reason they dont understand this

they think that thompson and delly are gonna not play because irving and love are back--- when its the back end bench guys that wont play- and thompson and delly will have their minutes that were INSANE in last years finals cut back to REASONABLE minutes where they are actually MORE effective.

 

[gordontrue]

Irving and Love are NOT soaking up the minutes of Tristan and Delly...maybe a LITTLE bit-- but they are MOSTLY sucking up those guys EXCESS minutes and the minutes of the back end bench scrubs

 

[bksballer89]

Much better with James Jones, Mike Miller, an old Perkins. Yes, some guys did play better defense but the offense was much worse, like a lot worse.

I agree. Point is the Warriors would score much more than they were last year. That was a better defensive group. Obviously the Cavs will score more as well.

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs defense was much better with those guys. Can't see them holding GSW to below 95 points with Kyrie & Love out there for nearly 40 minutes

It's kind of a pick your poison for the Cavs and it's not a great place to be in. There is no question that the Cavs are a better team offensively with Kyrie and Love on the floor. There is also no question that the Cavs are a better team defensively with them on the bench.

What Lue has to do is figure out the right mix of minutes. He has to be able to play Kyrie and Love enough to maximize their impact on offense, but sit them enough to minimize what their lack of defense. The better he is at getting that right, the longer the series will last and the better chance the Cavs will have.

 

[WiggyRuss]

the fact that they cant realize this BOGGLES my mind...lol...JAMES JONES WAS GETTING 20 MINUTESOF F THE BENCH EVERY NIGHT IN THE ECF AND FINALS LOL.....

 

[bksballer89]

for some reason they dont understand this

they think that thompson and delly are gonna not play because irving and love are back--- when its the back end bench guys that wont play- and thompson and delly will have their minutes that were INSANE in last years finals cut back to REASONABLE minutes where they are actually MORE effective.

I don't think anyone on here ever said the Cavs offense wouldn't be better with Love and kyrie playing. Just don't expect GSW to struggle on offense either.

 

[gordontrue]

I have ZERO problem with people saying the Warriors and Spurs should be favorites over the Cavs. They proved that all season long, start to finish.


The only thing that I just can't get on board with is how easily people dismiss the Cavs chances when they played the Warriors very competitively without Love & Irving. The "cavs are better without those guys" excuses are beyond absurd. I get that the Warriors improved... but the Cavs improvement with and without Love & Irving in a 7 game series against the best team in the league is equally - if not more - signifigant, imo.

 

[Shanemansj13]

for some reason they dont understand this

they think that thompson and delly are gonna not play because irving and love are back--- when its the back end bench guys that wont play- and thompson and delly will have their minutes that were INSANE in last years finals cut back to REASONABLE minutes where they are actually MORE effective.

Especially the fact that most of the starters were winded late in the 3rd and early 4th. They had zero depth and were still staying competitive. I am not going to deny that the Warriors are better but I think we will see a different Cavs team in the ECF and Finals bc Lebron will take more control. Don't get me wrong Kyrie is the offensive leader but we will see Lebron do more offensive, he is pretty much sitting back for the most part right now.

 

[gordontrue]

What Lue has to do is figure out the right mix of minutes. He has to be able to play Kyrie and Love enough to maximize their impact on offense, but sit them enough to minimize what their lack of defense. The better he is at getting that right, the longer the series will last and the better chance the Cavs will have.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cavs defense was much better with those guys. Can't see them holding GSW to below 95 points with Kyrie & Love out there for nearly 40 minutes

She'll write 10,000 words, but won't make 1 bet.
#pussy
#hopenotbelief

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't think anyone on here ever said the Cavs offense wouldn't be better with Love and kyrie playing. Just don't expect GSW to struggle on offense either.

Do they ever lol. And it was their first time playing in a Finals. I think the intensity in the Finals turns up defensively no matter who is on your team, there is a different drive. We saw the Cavs just with Kyrie have chance to win Game 1, until he got hurt in OT. Just think about that, then they won the next 2. So yeah the defensive helps a lot but they were still in a close game with Kyrie also.

 

[bksballer89]

Cavs are currently ranked 11th in DEF EFF out of 16 teams. GSW is ranked #1.

They're not beating the Warriors nor Spurs playing this kind of defense

 

[trojanfan12]

It kinda goes along the same lines as people saying the Cavs were just as good last year bc they had a better defense, but anyways the system lets them still play at a high level without their best player. I'm not saying they are better but subbing Livingston in to play PG actually helps them defensively IMO. Obviously, like the Cavs last year it hurts them offensively but not as much as you think. They averaged 114 ppg in the regular season, 111 ppg in the postseason. Obviously it is a way smaller sample size but if you watch them play they haven't missed a beat.

Actually, it's not. People are not saying that the Cavs were better overall without Love and Kyrie, that would be stupid. People are saying that the Cavs are better defensively without Love and Kyrie, which is true.

Steph is a solid enough defender, but he is small and that can be exploited. Livingston is bigger and can't be exploited like Curry. But Curry is so much better offensively that it more than makes up for being exploitable on defense.

It's a similar situation for the Cavs. They need Love and Kyrie's offense to be good enough to make up for their defense. If they can do that, they've got a real shot, imo.

 

[Shanemansj13]

It's kind of a pick your poison for the Cavs and it's not a great place to be in. There is no question that the Cavs are a better team offensively with Kyrie and Love on the floor. There is also no question that the Cavs are a better team defensively with them on the bench.

What Lue has to do is figure out the right mix of minutes. He has to be able to play Kyrie and Love enough to maximize their impact on offense, but sit them enough to minimize what their lack of defense. The better he is at getting that right, the longer the series will last and the better chance the Cavs will have.

That is the toughest task. He needs a mix of lineups where they aren't hurting defensively and not offensively as well. I wouldn't want that task.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Actually, it's not. People are not saying that the Cavs were better overall without Love and Kyrie, that would be stupid. People are saying that the Cavs are better defensively without Love and Kyrie, which is true.

Steph is a solid enough defender, but he is small and that can be exploited. Livingston is bigger and can't be exploited like Curry. But Curry is so much better offensively that it more than makes up for being exploitable on defense.

It's a similar situation for the Cavs. They need Love and Kyrie's offense to be good enough to make up for their defense. If they can do that, they've got a real shot, imo.

Yeah, I agree. Of course Curry is much better offensively but Livingston is underrated. Shoots a high percentage, a good rebounder, a high mismatch and can get what he wants when he wants with the mid-range. It hurts them without Curry, but it isn't a huge deal like some think at least in my opinion. It sounds crazy but really isn't.

 

[WiggyRuss]

[

With James Jones and Mike Miller?

The Cavs lineup in game 4 of the Finals last year was:

James- 45
Mozgov- 9
TT- 40
Delly- 42
Shump- 37

bench
Mike Miller 14
James Jones 18
Jr Smith 36


now-- if the Warriors couldnt beat a Cavs team starting Mozgov, where DELLY gets 42 minutes, Shump gets 37, JAMES JONES gets 18...then they shoudlve just packed up their ball and gone home and dissolved the team.


In THIS years possible Finals?

James- 40
Irving- 37
TT- 32
JR- 32
Love- 34

delly- 18-25
shump- 15-20
Frye- 10-15 (depending on matchup)
jefferson- 10-15 (depending on matchup)

NOW that is a lineup that is just INSANELY MORE FORMIDABLE than that half-assed injury prone- bad end of the bench squad that the Cavs were forced to throw out there against the Warriors...its not EVEN CLOSE.

 

[gordontrue]

Cavs are currently ranked 11th in DEF EFF out of 16 teams. GSW is ranked #1.

They're not beating the Warriors nor Spurs playing this kind of defense

That's playoff data... so a 5 game sample size for the Cavs. And heavily dependent on matchups since they've mostly just played 1 team.

Regular season, over 82 games against the whole league, Warriors were #4 in the league, Cavs #9.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, you I saw you make that point in another post, and it is a good point. They've played in plenty of close games but almost every single time they find a way to come out on top.

It's nerve racking for opponents and their fans. Your team is doing well and winning the game. But you are just waiting for that run that you know is coming and just hoping to hold it off until it's too late. In the game where the Lakers pulled off that huge upset, I think I watched the entire 4th quarter covering my eyes because I knew that sooner of later, the Warriors were going to go on a big run and end up blowing the Lakers out.

 

[trojanfan12]

That is the toughest task. He needs a mix of lineups where they aren't hurting defensively and not offensively as well. I wouldn't want that task.

Me either, but if he figures it out, you guys will have your coach of the future and maybe even a certain elusive trophy to go with it.