34-64-94 MLB Draft : CHAT

[wlk3]

On Dash turning those hard hits into singles....Before Erik's Jr year, he was running 7.0-7.1 60's(average). I got him with my older son's strength coach at our MMA school, and he spent the summer working on his flexibility and hit rotation. He explained that the best way to maximize your speed is to increase your flexibility, which in turn lengthens your stride, and coupled with more looseness in your hips, translates to a more fluid base. At any rate, Easy went from 7.0's to consistent 6.7's in a year....

I need to move to Texas!!! Lol he's 4'7" 98 pounds... Out of 11 there 10 I would guess 7 are between 50-60 pounds, the other 3 are 60-70 (2 of these guys are Dashs height)... He definitely needs to get flexible, I was trying to find a yoga place for him and Walker... Not a big thing down here lol

 

[Nosferatu]

Johnny still hasn't text me back, he usually gets back to me pretty quick, hope he's alright...

 

[UK Cowboy]

I need to move to Texas!!! Lol he's 4'7" 98 pounds... Out of 11 there 10 I would guess 7 are between 50-60 pounds, the other 3 are 60-70 (2 of these guys are Dashs height)... He definitely needs to get flexible, I was trying to find a yoga place for him and Walker... Not a big thing down here lol

I would not try and make him lose weight...on the contrary, pile it on. Just work on his balance and flexibility. Think about it, at 90 pounds, you still want him to gain at least 100 pounds over the next 7-8 years from there. My advice...martial arts and soccer(not goalie)...will make him a terrific athlete and improve him at all sports.

 

[blstoker]

The irony is I thought you guys did make great counterpoints... I honestly am an eye test guy 85% and 15% stat... I know there should be more balance but I think when you see a person play you get his demeanor, his tendencies, strength weakness etc... Stats do tell a story but YouTube and Google are my stats lol I don't understand 90% of what Omar said but they were well thought out posts IMO... But the 2 of you showed me you understand the stats but it doesn't over take what you have seen... I need to learn it, I think that's why you guys own me at this point... I can't tell you how many times I thought I got them this time and you guys grab these players and I'm like who the fuck...? And everyone else is like great pick!!! Well done gents...

I'm a big stats guy, but stats are things that can be interpreted in a million different ways, and anyone who relies on stats for opinion must remember that stats aren't always seen the way they see them. As the saying goes, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."

The issue I have with new age stats guys (staberist and the like) is their tendency to take their interpretation of statistics as if it came out of the 67th book in the Holy Bible. To question the interpretation of any statistic is paramount to heresy, especially sabermetric stats.

I have to agree with Nos on the point that players aren't better today that they were before. Not because the stats are inflated in the past (which they were, but maybe not for the reasons that newer guys want to think), but because the skill level for the game has gone significantly down. Just an example would be the lack of small ball - the league hasn't had someone with more than 20 SH since 2004 (Royce Clayton, 24), over 30 since 1990 (Jay Bell, 39) and we'll probably never see someone get 50 again. Omar Vizquel (35th) and Tom Glavine (69th) are the only 2 players since the start of the steroid era to be in the top 100 in SH (and only 4 more in the next 100).

My high school coach told me that I was the best bunter he had ever seen (his two sons played minor ball) and as such I was allowed to bunt whenever I felt necessary. Yes, I had a green light to bunt (also had it to steal, FWIW). If a 3B played back, I bunted every time and I would usually steal second and effectively make a bunt single a double on a regular basis. Had 1 game where I was 3-3 and my hit distance didn't go more than 60 feet, combined. The league started playing 3B at softball depth (40-50 feet from home), SS would play in and pitchers would fall to the left to position against the bunt. The results were that the field became very open for me even when I didn't bunt - and I hit .430 my JR. and half way through my senior year. Had I not absolutely shredded my shoulder half way through my senior year, I had plans on moving on and playing for WSU or BYU, just not in my cards. Despite a career .367 average and .600 slg, once it was shown I couldn't throw from medium depth CF to second anymore, colleges just weren't interested anymore (going 3-19 to finish my senior year didn't help either).

The point of all that was - that if I, as a high schooler who didn't learn to properly bunt until I was in the 10th grade, was good enough that I could be compared (not sure the hyperbole was entirely genuine) to those in the pros nearly 20 years ago - then MLB has forgotten how to play small ball. The league has entered into another pitching era, and instead of adjusting to the new dominance of pitchers, batter are still swinging like it's the steroid era. And, that's just one example.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Johnny still hasn't text me back, he usually gets back to me pretty quick, hope he's alright...

If you don't get this thing moving a long I'm calling Omar

 

[Nosferatu]

I would not try and make him lose weight...on the contrary, pile it on. Just work on his balance and flexibility. Think about it, at 90 pounds, you still want him to gain at least 100 pounds over the next 7-8 years from there. My advice...martial arts and soccer(not goalie)...will make him a terrific athlete and improve him at all sports.

Unless he's only gonna grow to 5'6... lolzzz

 

[UK Cowboy]

The irony is I thought you guys did make great counterpoints... I honestly am an eye test guy 85% and 15% stat... I know there should be more balance but I think when you see a person play you get his demeanor, his tendencies, strength weakness etc... Stats do tell a story but YouTube and Google are my stats lol I don't understand 90% of what Omar said but they were well thought out posts IMO... But the 2 of you showed me you understand the stats but it doesn't over take what you have seen... I need to learn it, I think that's why you guys own me at this point... I can't tell you how many times I thought I got them this time and you guys grab these players and I'm like who the fuck...? And everyone else is like great pick!!! Well done gents...

It's going to be the same for Omar someday....he's gonna be sitting around with his grandkids, say 2048, and there will be 5 NFL QB's with 6500 yards passing in a season, and they will tell Omar, "Gramps, these guys are throwing for 1500 yards more than Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady ever did, those old time guys sucked". To which Grandpa Omar will say, ''yeah, but back then it was 11 on 11 instead of 7 on 7, and the guys wore pads and hit, instead of playing two below"......''Oh, whatever old man, our advanced QBR squared divided by the PFR rating says that those guys would have only been good for 3000 yards in our modern game!''

 

[Ritzarmy]

Johnny is being skipped at 2:40 that will be 3hrs

 

[Nosferatu]

Johnny is being skipped at 2:40 that will be 3hrs

Yes sir...

 

[Ritzarmy]

Yes sir...

Glad it's saluting with the correct hand (right) It bugs me when I see saluting in movies and they salute with the wrong hand.

 

[Ritzarmy]

500's turn and has been texted

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I'm a big stats guy, but stats are things that can be interpreted in a million different ways, and anyone who relies on stats for opinion must remember that stats aren't always seen the way they see them. As the saying goes, "There are lies, damn lies and statistics."

The issue I have with new age stats guys (staberist and the like) is their tendency to take their interpretation of statistics as if it came out of the 67th book in the Holy Bible. To question the interpretation of any statistic is paramount to heresy, especially sabermetric stats.

I have to agree with Nos on the point that players aren't better today that they were before. Not because the stats are inflated in the past (which they were, but maybe not for the reasons that newer guys want to think), but because the skill level for the game has gone significantly down. Just an example would be the lack of small ball - the league hasn't had someone with more than 20 SH since 2004 (Royce Clayton, 24), over 30 since 1990 (Jay Bell, 39) and we'll probably never see someone get 50 again. Omar Vizquel (35th) and Tom Glavine (69th) are the only 2 players since the start of the steroid era to be in the top 100 in SH (and only 4 more in the next 100).

My high school coach told me that I was the best bunter he had ever seen (his two sons played minor ball) and as such I was allowed to bunt whenever I felt necessary. Yes, I had a green light to bunt (also had it to steal, FWIW). If a 3B played back, I bunted every time and I would usually steal second and effectively make a bunt single a double on a regular basis. Had 1 game where I was 3-3 and my hit distance didn't go more than 60 feet, combined. The league started playing 3B at softball depth (40-50 feet from home), SS would play in and pitchers would fall to the left to position against the bunt. The results were that the field became very open for me even when I didn't bunt - and I hit .430 my JR. and half way through my senior year. Had I not absolutely shredded my shoulder half way through my senior year, I had plans on moving on and playing for WSU or BYU, just not in my cards. Despite a career .367 average and .600 slg, once it was shown I couldn't throw from medium depth CF to second anymore, colleges just weren't interested anymore (going 3-19 to finish my senior year didn't help either).

The point of all that was - that if I, as a high schooler who didn't learn to properly bunt until I was in the 10th grade, was good enough that I could be compared (not sure the hyperbole was entirely genuine) to those in the pros nearly 20 years ago - then MLB has forgotten how to play small ball. The league has entered into another pitching era, and instead of adjusting to the new dominance of pitchers, batter are still swinging like it's the steroid era. And, that's just one example.

I guess as the person who brought it up this time(although it would have died down like it always does if Omar vs UK and nos didn't happen)...

I will say this, nobody said that players back then were not better or worse... the thing i disagree the most with though is any newer generation is lazy BS... EVERY single older generation complains that the younger generations are lazy... EVERY single one!!!... Its that adults forget what it was like to be a kid, they forget just how many distractions they had... If you want to say the younger generations have more distractions, that is probably true, but to think that they have found success without working their asses off is just not fair... Now, of course not everyone works hard, but that has been true forever...

Before this mock started i wanted this to be a 1940-1980 draft and this was the reason... we always start arguing about generations... We always use players from their stats without any generational influence... Funny thing is, we always talk about the Colorado affect and how it pads players stats, but we never talk about the toronto affect, that does the same thing, just not as bad, and more so we never talk about how different generations may be unbalanced as well...

in elder day baseball, as bloker mentioned, small ball was very big... Contact rates were very high, it was a totally different game... Different only means that we should measure differently... Some of us don't want to measure players differently, and that is fine...

I brought up some stats that started this whole thing on this board, i admitted that they are not perfect and never used them to say Heine Manush was bad... I admitted i used them because they attempt to show something that no other stats show... But all i use them for is to see whether an era is more of a pitching era or a hitting era... they don't show anything else...

But the one thing clear, is that some of us wont ever agree...

 

[Nosferatu]

This one time when I was in school in Mississippi I was walking back to my room from the bar/pool hall/bowling alley on base at like 1:00am and I was pretty drunk, drank about 15 Michelob's and a Captain walked past me on the path and I didn't salute him, I got past him and thought shit so I stopped, turned around and said sir, he turned around and I said my apologies sir I didn't salute you, he laughed and said it's okay son go sleep it off...

 

[Nosferatu]

I guess as the person who brought it up this time(although it would have died down like it always does if Omar vs UK and nos didn't happen)...

I will say this, nobody said that players back then were not better or worse... the thing i disagree the most with though is any newer generation is lazy BS... EVERY single older generation complains that the younger generations are lazy... EVERY single one!!!... Its that adults forget what it was like to be a kid, they forget just how many distractions they had... If you want to say the younger generations have more distractions, that is probably true, but to think that they have found success without working their asses off is just not fair... Now, of course not everyone works hard, but that has been true forever...

Before this mock started i wanted this to be a 1940-1980 draft and this was the reason... we always start arguing about generations... We always use players from their stats without any generational influence... Funny thing is, we always talk about the Colorado affect and how it pads players stats, but we never talk about the toronto affect, that does the same thing, just not as bad, and more so we never talk about how different generations may be unbalanced as well...

in elder day baseball, as bloker mentioned, small ball was very big... Contact rates were very high, it was a totally different game... Different only means that we should measure differently... Some of us don't want to measure players differently, and that is fine...

I brought up some stats that started this whole thing on this board, i admitted that they are not perfect and never used them to say Heine Manush was bad... I admitted i used them because they attempt to show something that no other stats show... But all i use them for is to see whether an era is more of a pitching era or a hitting era... they don't show anything else...

But the one thing clear, is that some of us wont ever agree...

Pretty much where I stopped reading, you ever think that maybe every generation is getting more and more lazy? With technology life gets more and more easy making people more and more lazy, the current generation is lazy compared to generations of the past, now I don't mean that as a blanket statement as there are of course exceptions but the current generation if you will, doesn't want to work hard to get to the top, they want it handed to them, the current generation doesn't respect it's elders the way my generation did, yet they demand to be treated with respect without having earned it. We now live in an America where young people believe they are owed something, piece of advice for the younger generation, stop playing the fucking victim, stop blaming everyone else for your failures go out and get a fucking job and work your ass off to get what you want, stop relying on others to do it for you!

Brought to you by the you gotta be out of your fucking mind to vote for Hillary campaign.

 

[Ritzarmy]

This one time when I was in school in Mississippi I was walking back to my room from the bar/pool hall/bowling alley on base at like 1:00am and I was pretty drunk, draft about 15 Michelob's and a Captain walked past me on the path and I didn't salute him, I got past him and thought shit so I stopped, turned around and said sir, he turned around and I said my apologies sir I didn't salute you, he laughed and said it's okay son go sleep it off...

Nice CPT and nice of you.

 

[Nosferatu]

Johnny text me, he said his phone was dead he will pick later.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Pretty much where I stopped reading, you ever think that maybe every generation is getting more and more lazy? With technology life gets more and more easy making people more and more lazy, the current generation is lazy compared to generations of the past, now I don't mean that as a blanket statement as there are of course exceptions but the current generation if you will, doesn't want to work hard to get to the top, they want it handed to them, the current generation doesn't respect it's elders the way my generation did, yet they demand to be treated with respect without having earned it. We now live in an America where young people believe they are owed something, piece of advice for the younger generation, stop playing the fucking victim, stop blaming everyone else for your failures go out and get a fucking job and work your ass off to get what you want, stop relying on others to do it for you!

Brought to you by the you gotta be out of your fucking mind to vote for Hillary campaign.

And how many of these lazy no good younger generationers will ever be good enough to be in professional sports... the point was that to be successful at anything, you are going to work your ass off in whatever you will be successful in... at least most successful people will... there will always be people with bad work ethic finding success, that has been true forever...

 

[blstoker]

EVERY single older generation complains that the younger generations are lazy...

I don't think that younger athletes are lazy (since I'm not worried about everyone else in this conversation, since this is about sports, baseball in particular). Are there lazy ones among them - of course, as there were in times past. I think they're not taught the game and I think they have a mentality that any play that doesn't produce a run is a failure. I don't necessarily think it's their fault - cause for the most part the younger athletes only know what they've been taught - and the finer nuances of the sport stopped being important in light of instant offense. If there's anyone who's lazy - it's been the coaches from little league to MLB who have allowed a kid who has played baseball 20 year (estimated from 5 to 25, though I know most MLB players get called up before 25) to not know the finer nuances of the game.

Kids today aren't any more distracted now than they were before - except by maybe twitter - they're just distracted by different things.

As for the game being different, I agree - it was very different back then. The point that comes from that is that high contact guys can still be successful in today's game (Ichiro) where high K high power guys would have struggled in the game of the past (Mark Reynolds comes to mind).

In these mocks, I look for complete teams, players that can complement each other and become a line up. Having 9 500 HR guys is most likely going to have me vote against you - cause to win you need those guys to hit a lot of HRs, which even the best can only do once every 4 games. So, I look at a guy like Cobb and see someone who is high contact, high OBP and the like and see a #1 or #2 hitter, I don't really care that at his time he was a #3 - he fits a #1 today. Just like a guy like Walter Johnson, who pitched well against guys who were contact hitters - so he should be successful against power hitters because they won't get the contact as often - even if he would give up more HRs. Some things can't be accounted for - like different pitches and such - so I just use reference from who they faced and assume that had they played later they would have developed that pitch or learned to hit it.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Pretty much where I stopped reading, you ever think that maybe every generation is getting more and more lazy? With technology life gets more and more easy making people more and more lazy, the current generation is lazy compared to generations of the past, now I don't mean that as a blanket statement as there are of course exceptions but the current generation if you will, doesn't want to work hard to get to the top, they want it handed to them, the current generation doesn't respect it's elders the way my generation did, yet they demand to be treated with respect without having earned it. We now live in an America where young people believe they are owed something, piece of advice for the younger generation, stop playing the fucking victim, stop blaming everyone else for your failures go out and get a fucking job and work your ass off to get what you want, stop relying on others to do it for you!

Brought to you by the you gotta be out of your fucking mind to vote for Hillary campaign.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head. If the current generation is ''lazier'' than the past, who the heck could blame them? I'm sure I would be. The kids today just have so many things to take up their time. When I was a kid, guys would work, work out, train, and work out some more. There was no internet, no 300 station TV, pay per view, XBox, cell phones, snap chat, and there sure as Hell weren't any high school girls with fake boobs and tanning bed memberships....There is no question that kids today are faster, jump higher, are stronger, all that...but in SKILL sports, like baseball and golf,being bigger, stronger and faster doesn't make you better. Hitting a baseball is about reps, and reps require time commitment

 

[Nosferatu]

And how many of these lazy no good younger generationers will ever be good enough to be in professional sports... the point was that to be successful at anything, you are going to work your ass off in whatever you will be successful in... at least most successful people will... there will always be people with bad work ethic finding success, that has been true forever...

My argument wasn't really with about athletes being lazy as it was about younger people in general, when I was a kid growing up in the 70's and 80's you would see tons of kids riding bikes, playing baseball at parks, at the lake swimming, kids the last 20 years or so are sitting in front of the TV playing video games or on their phones all day. That lazy behavior carries over into adult life, just my opinions...