34-64-94 MLB Draft : CHAT

[MilkSpiller22]

There you go proving my point, that's not even close to what I said... Put your internet muscles away, nobody cares.

you should see my internet muscles... they are larger than any clam...

 

[Omar 382]

Every stat you quote is WAR, and even then you admit that WAR is different depending on who figures the stat out. It cannot be a solid basis of argument if the stat has to be quantified with what source it is taken from, because everyone chooses if their own way of figuring things out, the stat loses meaning.

As for incomplete data - I shouldn't have brought earlier conversations into this one.

So, to an earlier point, how exactly does WAR go beyond eras and decide who is better?

And WAR is not at all the only stat I use. not even close. Speaker has a significantly higher WAR than Mantle, but Mantle is the better player, IMO

 

[Omar 382]

Every stat you quote is WAR, and even then you admit that WAR is different depending on who figures the stat out. It cannot be a solid basis of argument if the stat has to be quantified with what source it is taken from, because everyone chooses if their own way of figuring things out, the stat loses meaning.

As for incomplete data - I shouldn't have brought earlier conversations into this one.

So, to an earlier point, how exactly does WAR go beyond eras and decide who is better?

"The league adjustment is a small correction to make it so that each league’s runs above average balances out to zero. Each league’s Batting Runs + Base Running Runs + Fielding Runs + Positional Adjustment often total to something slightly different from zero. The league adjustment fixes this and has a very tiny impact on player value.

To find the league adjustment find the league specific values (AL or NL) and do the following:

League Adjustment = ((-1)*(lgBatting Runs + lgBase Running Runs + lgFielding Runs + lgPositional Adjustment) / lgPA)*PA

This will tell you how many extra runs you need to add to the entire league per PA and then you multiply that by the specific player’s PA. This will add between 0 and 5 runs to a player’s value per season based on their league and PA."

WAR for Position Players | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

 

[wlk3]

No, I just don't understand them, hence me not getting involved in this argument....

How about this arguement...

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense... But just because is it don't make dollars, does that automatically mean it don't makes cents... And if it does make cents, then does it make sense since cents can add up to dollars...

 

[Omar 382]

How about this arguement...

If it don't make dollars it don't make sense... But just because is it don't make dollars, does that automatically mean it don't makes cents... And if it does make cents, then does it make sense since cents can add up to dollars...

Can't argue with that!

 

[blstoker]

"The league adjustment is a small correction to make it so that each league’s runs above average balances out to zero. Each league’s Batting Runs + Base Running Runs + Fielding Runs + Positional Adjustment often total to something slightly different from zero. The league adjustment fixes this and has a very tiny impact on player value.

To find the league adjustment find the league specific values (AL or NL) and do the following:

League Adjustment = ((-1)*(lgBatting Runs + lgBase Running Runs + lgFielding Runs + lgPositional Adjustment) / lgPA)*PA

This will tell you how many extra runs you need to add to the entire league per PA and then you multiply that by the specific player’s PA. This will add between 0 and 5 runs to a player’s value per season based on their league and PA."

WAR for Position Players | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

That tells me how fangraphs figures it, but not how it "transcend leagues and eras"

 

[Omar 382]

That tells me how fangraphs figures it, but not how it "transcend leagues and eras"

In layman's terms?
Having a .900 OPS in 600 PA in 1968 is far better than a .900 OPS in 2000. I could expand on that, but does that answer your question? (I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm assuming you have a serious question and want an answer)

 

[UK Cowboy]

In layman's terms?
Having a .900 OPS in 600 PA in 1968 is far better than a .900 OPS in 2000. I could expand on that, but does that answer your question? (I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm assuming you have a serious question and want an answer)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

And WAR is not at all the only stat I use. not even close. Speaker has a significantly higher WAR than Mantle, but Mantle is the better player, IMO

I am not a WAR fan at all... But I will be honest and say I like WAR7 and JAWS... I like how it tries to differentiate a players best seasons with the their rest of career, I don't really see any other stat doing that... But that is really all I use it for... to check how high it is compared to their WAR... Other than that I hate WAR... Biggest problem I have with it is that there should not be a positional advantage in offense... I think oWAR and dWAR should be totally separate and only dWAR gets the positional bonus...

 

[Omar 382]

I am not a WAR fan at all... But I will be honest and say I like WAR7 and JAWS... I like how it tries to differentiate a players best seasons with the their rest of career, I don't really see any other stat doing that... But that is really all I use it for... to check how high it is compared to their WAR... Other than that I hate WAR... Biggest problem I have with it is that there should not be a positional advantage in offense... I think oWAR and dWAR should be totally separate and only dWAR gets the positional bonus...

How can you hate WAR but still like WAR7 and JAWS? That's like saying you hate alcohol but love gin and beer... they come from the same thing ? WAR7 and JAWS solely use WAR in their calculations.

And if you hate WAR, I strongly recommend WAA (some think this is a superior stat)

 

[Omar 382]

Look Dude, Nos is as respected as anyone on the mock board, and after posting here since the get go, I can tell you our core guys know their stuff. You're welcome to state your opinions and get along, but if you're gonna start out by getting in a pissing match with Nos, you can go ahead and take the train right now

That's like being black in 1960 and someone saying: "Look dude, J. Edgar Hoover is as respected as anyone in the government. You have to listen to everything he says and if you don't want to agree with him then you can leave now"

Call me Martin Luther King Jr.........

 

[Pack 500]

How can you hate WAR but still like WAR7 and JAWS? That's like saying you hate alcohol but love gin and beer... they come from the same thing ? WAR7 and JAWS solely use WAR in their calculations.

And if you hate WAR, I strongly recommend WAA (some think this is a superior stat)

wRC+ is the stat I use to compare Eras in these drafts for hitting. Not only does it compare to the league average of the particular time but it also factors in ballpark factors.

 

[Omar 382]

wRC+ is the stat I use to compare Eras in these drafts for hitting. Not only does it compare to the league average of the particular time but it also factors in ballpark factors.

Couldn't agree more. Great stat that I use all the time, and is far better than OPS+ (as wOBA is far superior to OPS)

 

[blstoker]

In layman's terms?
Having a .900 OPS in 600 PA in 1968 is far better than a .900 OPS in 2000. I could expand on that, but does that answer your question? (I'm not trying to patronize you, I'm assuming you have a serious question and want an answer)

But that is not what WAR is designed to do. It never has. It's not even designed to figure out the best player in the league, but just how important a player is to his own team. And no one can tell you how it's figured, because WAR is non-standardized. And, even if it isn't the only stat used to come to your conclusion, it has been the only stat you've ever used to defend your position that I have seen - granted I have only seen your arguments for a little over a week - but invariably it's WAR/WAR7/JAWS - all stats that are variations on WAR.

"There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework." Baseball-Reference.com WAR Explained | Baseball-Reference.com

"Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is an attempt by the sabermetric baseball community to summarize a player’s total contributions to their team in one statistic. You should always use more than one metric at a time when evaluating players, but WAR is all-inclusive and provides a useful reference point for comparing players. " What is WAR? | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

"Wins Above Replacement commonly abbreviated to WAR, is a non-standardized sabermetricbaseballstatistic developed to sum up "a player's total contributions to his team" Wins Above Replacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mebert]

I think the best Center fielders of all time are
1. Ellis Burks
2. Preston Wilson
3. Dexter Fowler

I would continue, but Rockies center fielders make me sad

 

[Pack 500]

Couldn't agree more. Great stat that I use all the time, and is far better than OPS+ (as wOBA is far superior to OPS)

Right on. wOBA and wRC+ are definitely my personal favorites. WAR has more flaws mostly because I disagree with how it evaluates defense.

 

[Omar 382]

But that is not what WAR is designed to do. It never has. It's not even designed to figure out the best player in the league, but just how important a player is to his own team. And no one can tell you how it's figured, because WAR is non-standardized. And, even if it isn't the only stat used to come to your conclusion, it has been the only stat you've ever used to defend your position that I have seen - granted I have only seen your arguments for a little over a week - but invariably it's WAR/WAR7/JAWS - all stats that are variations on WAR.

"There is no one way to determine WAR. There are hundreds of steps to make this calculation, and dozens of places where reasonable people can disagree on the best way to implement a particular part of the framework." Baseball-Reference.com WAR Explained | Baseball-Reference.com

"Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is an attempt by the sabermetric baseball community to summarize a player’s total contributions to their team in one statistic. You should always use more than one metric at a time when evaluating players, but WAR is all-inclusive and provides a useful reference point for comparing players. " What is WAR? | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

"Wins Above Replacement commonly abbreviated to WAR, is a non-standardized sabermetricbaseballstatistic developed to sum up "a player's total contributions to his team" Wins Above Replacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Isn't "a player's contributions to his team" connote being the best player in his league? Isn't Mike Trout having an OPS north of .950 helping his team, and making him the best player in the league. What I'm saying is, isn't "most helpful to his team" synonymous with "best player in the league"?

And again, I have, and continue to, use a myriad of stats including and not including WAR.

 

[Omar 382]

I think the best Center fielders of all time are
1. Ellis Burks
2. Preston Wilson
3. Dexter Fowler

I would continue, but Rockies center fielders make me sad

Where's the CarGo love? I think he played enough center to qualify

 

[Nosferatu]

And WAR is not at all the only stat I use. not even close. Speaker has a significantly higher WAR than Mantle, but Mantle is the better player, IMO

You use WAR to tell others their OPINIONS are wrong but then go away from WAR when it comes to your own opinion. This just in, stupid people are stupid.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Okay let's talk MLB draft. How long for Smitty to be OTC?