2nd round qb's and overly optimistic fans

[Smart]

I don't recall McShay having him in the first round. I know Kiper and him disagreed on that one if memory serves me correctly.

Nobody had Clausen ranked high besides Kiper (who had him top five overall). Clausen's agent was Gary Wichard. I don't think it takes a genius to put two and two together there.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Why was he a first round talent? Because Kiper and McShay said so? Apparently no NFL teams thought he was 1st round talent. And NFL teams have shown that they are willing to take QBs early, even if it might be a reach (some argued Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Sanchez, etc.)

i go by popular mocks leading up to the draft. i rated brees the same as pennington and plummer which were mid 1st rounders. it doesn't really matter anyways. even if u include brees and plummer over 80% of the 2nd round qb's appear very similar to the line of thinking with kap.

the 2nd round qb's usually have strong lively arms, good athletes, etc. then teams and fans think hey this guy has the physical skills, we can develop him into a starting qb. just because guys like kap, tony banks, quincy carter, tavaris jackson can run and fling the ball down the field, doesn't mean they're gonna turn into anything special.

we need to ratchet down the expectations and hope we keep looking for the right qb.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not a big deal, but is mediocre above or below average? If it's slightly above average (or heck, even at average), then I'm cool with that assessment.

I'd say Smith is just about average as a starting NFL QB. This past season I'd give him slightly above average because of how well he protected the ball.

 

[deep9er]

i go by popular mocks leading up to the draft. i rated brees the same as pennington and plummer which were mid 1st rounders. it doesn't really matter anyways. even if u include brees and plummer over 80% of the 2nd round qb's appear very similar to the line of thinking with kap.

the 2nd round qb's usually have strong lively arms, good athletes, etc. then teams and fans think hey this guy has the physical skills, we can develop him into a starting qb. just because guys like kap, tony banks, quincy carter, tavaris jackson can run and fling the ball down the field, doesn't mean they're gonna turn into anything special.

we need to ratchet down the expectations and hope we keep looking for the right qb.

i get the gist of what you're saying, but we need to rush out and replace CK now?

agree the odds don't favor a 2nd rounder being a quality NFL QB (not even going to use 'elite' or 'Pro Bowler'). we fans are placing way too much faith he's "the future", but again........don't see why we need to replace him now?

 

[Flyingiguana]

i get the gist of what you're saying, but we need to rush out and replace CK now?

agree the odds don't favor a 2nd rounder being a quality NFL QB (not even going to use 'elite' or 'Pro Bowler'). we fans are placing way too much faith he's "the future", but again........don't see why we need to replace him now?

no we don't need to rush out and replace him. we do need to keep our eyes open and not expect kap to be anything more than another quincy carter. i'd like to have a 2nd qb to compete for the future spot. who would also compete against smith if he doesn't progress. right now if smith doesn't progress that could leave us with two average qb's. the fuck with that

the chances of 2 legit starting qb's coming out of last years draft in the 2nd round is possible but very slim. looking at it from a probability standpoint, things don't look good for kap, or dalton just had beginner's luck.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

no we don't need to rush out and replace him. we do need to keep our eyes open and not expect kap to be anything more than another quincy carter. i'd like to have a 2nd qb to compete for the future spot. who would also compete against smith if he doesn't progress. right now if smith doesn't progress that could leave us with two average qb's. the fuck with that

the chances of 2 legit starting qb's coming out of last years draft in the 2nd round is possible but very slim. looking at it from a probability standpoint, things don't look good for kap, or dalton just had beginner's luck.

So are you proposing we trade up to draft a QB in the first round this year? Obviously we can't take another in the second, and I'd imagine it only gets worse after that.

 

[Flyingiguana]

So are you proposing we trade up to draft a QB in the first round this year? Obviously we can't take another in the second, and I'd imagine it only gets worse after that.

no...

 

[numone9er]

It was just hyperbole. I was just saying that just because he was viewed by the media as a first rounder doesn't mean that he actually is.

There were a bunch of us on ESPN that said he wasn't a first round talent in 2010, including myself.

Gotcha. Just trying to defend McShay on that one.

 

[Flyingiguana]

mcshay had clausen going to us a couple weeks before the draft. anyways, put clausen in miami and he puts up moore numbers or better. moore looked horrible in carolina and for good reason.

 

[clyde_carbon]

i go by popular mocks leading up to the draft. i rated brees the same as pennington and plummer which were mid 1st rounders. it doesn't really matter anyways. even if u include brees and plummer over 80% of the 2nd round qb's appear very similar to the line of thinking with kap.

the 2nd round qb's usually have strong lively arms, good athletes, etc. then teams and fans think hey this guy has the physical skills, we can develop him into a starting qb. just because guys like kap, tony banks, quincy carter, tavaris jackson can run and fling the ball down the field, doesn't mean they're gonna turn into anything special.

we need to ratchet down the expectations and hope we keep looking for the right qb.

How many of the 2nd round QBs you listed have lively arms and are great athletes?

The only thing you're consistent at is being a hypocrite. I honestly think you're just being a troll now. You claim repeatedly that you don't want this team to sign Manning because of the injury risk, and then you go and claim that you'd be "scared" if the Seahawks sign him. It's beyond clear what you're trying to do at this point.

 

[Flyingiguana]

when it comes to manning nobody really knows what to expect. i know i will cringe everytime he takes a hit if we sign him.

most of those qb's taken in the 2nd were taken based on physical abilities. that's the point i'm trying to get at. before we drafted kap i was aware of how horrible 2nd round qb's were as starters. after the 1st round you're more likely to get a back up. 1st rounders are starters or busts who don't even live long as a back up.

 

[dredinis21]

Flying, your argument is ridiculous. Based on your logic, no QB drafted after the 1st rd is worth a damn. And I also see that you are not taking each organization's ability to draft AND DEVELOP a QB into consideration. Fresh take. Thanks for the list. I'll wipe my ass with it.

 

[Flyingiguana]

all i'm saying is to keep things in perspective when thinking kap is our savior at qb. it isn't like we drafted a top 10 talent. the guy has plenty of things to work on before he's ready.

just having a big arm or athleticism isn't enough to be an nfl starter. some teams lost a few years by throwing those guys into the fire.

 

[Flyingiguana]

looking at the current top 15 qb's. about half went 1st overal and two thirds in the 1st round. drew brees 32nd, which would be end of the 1st round now. u have a 3rd rounder in schaub then brady and romo.

maybe we'll get lucky with kap, but otherwise we'll have to spend a couple 1st rounders to get into a position to grab someone that falls out of the top 10. nobody this year that fits the bill.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

all i'm saying is to keep things in perspective when thinking kap is our savior at qb. it isn't like we drafted a top 10 talent. the guy has plenty of things to work on before he's ready.

just having a big arm or athleticism isn't enough to be an nfl starter. some teams lost a few years by throwing those guys into the fire.

I don't think anyone, except MAYBE Clyde, thinks Kap is a savior. They just think he might be better than Smith. I'd say that's a valid position. I'm not crazy about the term, but Smith hasn't shown he can be much more than a game manager. He made some plays in crunch time this year, and he's certainly no Dilfer, but based on his play this season it's hard to see a lot of upside in him.

Our head coach is one of the best QB developers in recent history, granted much of that came at the college level. Nonetheless, Harbaugh has had tremendous success with QBs, including setting Smith up to succeed. If he can do that with a guy who was beaten, broken, and with a middle-of-the-pack arm, what can he do with a guy who is fresh clay, has a huge arm, and tremendous athleticism? Given what Harbaugh did with Josh Johnson and Andrew Luck, is it fair to compare Kap's situation to all those other second round picks? I don't know. These are mostly rhetorical questions. I think it's at least worth considering giving Kap a shot sooner rather than later, though.

 

[BINGO]

Iguana = Seksiwidow

 

[BINGO]

all i'm saying is to keep things in perspective when thinking kap is our savior at qb. it isn't like we drafted a top 10 talent. the guy has plenty of things to work on before he's ready.

just having a big arm or athleticism isn't enough to be an nfl starter. some teams lost a few years by throwing those guys into the fire.

...and some teams lost 7+years by holding on too long to a QB who's inefficient. Scared to move on. Afraid of change because they are afraid to admit an error.

That's not the only way a team can get setback. The opposite is true in that being drafted so high can have an adverse affect to a team's future due to the so called "commitment" that goes along to a player selected # 1 overall. See Al Davis with Jamarcus Russell, and 49ers with Alex Smith.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I don't think anyone, except MAYBE Clyde, thinks Kap is a savior. They just think he might be better than Smith. I'd say that's a valid position. I'm not crazy about the term, but Smith hasn't shown he can be much more than a game manager. He made some plays in crunch time this year, and he's certainly no Dilfer, but based on his play this season it's hard to see a lot of upside in him.

Our head coach is one of the best QB developers in recent history, granted much of that came at the college level. Nonetheless, Harbaugh has had tremendous success with QBs, including setting Smith up to succeed. If he can do that with a guy who was beaten, broken, and with a middle-of-the-pack arm, what can he do with a guy who is fresh clay, has a huge arm, and tremendous athleticism? Given what Harbaugh did with Josh Johnson and Andrew Luck, is it fair to compare Kap's situation to all those other second round picks? I don't know. These are mostly rhetorical questions. I think it's at least worth considering giving Kap a shot sooner rather than later, though.

what did he do with josh johnson and andrew luck? will johnson ever turn into a starter? i wanted to draft him as a potential back up.

the bolded part hits my argument right on the head. why does he deserve a shot? think about what you're saying...

 

[Flyingiguana]

...and some teams lost 7+years by holding on too long to a QB who's inefficient. Scared to move on. Afraid of change because they are afraid to admit an error.

That's not the only way a team can get setback. The opposite is true in that being drafted so high can have an adverse affect to a team's future due to the so called "commitment" that goes along to a player selected # 1 overall. See Al Davis with Jamarcus Russell, and 49ers with Alex Smith.

smith worked his way back into the starting role and ended up being our best option last offseason. comparing russell and smith is just stupid.

 

[BINGO]

what did he do with josh johnson and andrew luck? will johnson ever turn into a starter? i wanted to draft him as a potential back up.

the bolded part hits my argument right on the head. why does he deserve a shot? think about what you're saying...

Oh man you are clueless. You are only strengthenning his argument. All you are doing is saying: "he took a undersized kid from a low budget school and turned him into a professional quarterback". He took sh8 and made it turn to diamond / he made the impossible become a reality for an undersized pathetic kid of a quarterback. He succeeded where most other coaches would fail.

How many QBs from Univ. of San Diego ever got drafted in the NFL and became stars in the NFL?