21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[Chris p Bacon]

The Avalanche shouldn't wait to make a deal for Claude Giroux

Clearly in "win now" mode, Colorado could add scoring punch and veteran savvy, while blocking their rivals, by making a deal for the veteran

denverfan.com

From a Colorado perspective, Sampo Ranta and Martin Kaut as the prospect return..

Kaut - "projects as a reliable bottom 6 guy at the NHL level"
Ranta - "The finer skills can lack finesse and touch but he has endearing qualities as a potential fourth liner"

Wheeler’s 2022 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 21 Colorado Avalanche

The Avalanche may rank 21st overall according to us, but they still have some quality prospects in their stable.

theathletic.com

To me, that's not at all what the Flyers need. They're littered with guys that could be quality bottom 6 guys. As we've talked about, their problem is guys like Konecny/Lindblom/Laughton seem to be the skill and play-style for a perfect 3rd line. Adding more guys like them doesn't really help. They need top of the lineup guys. Either for the previous guys to step their game up and be that, or they need to add them.

Yep, they need to go big or not at all. Mediocre is just going to breed mediocrity.

 

[awaz]

Newhook would be a great addition, his potential is untapped and could be huge, just don't think Colorado will part with him.

Ya, I don't think they will either. Makes sense as a cost controlled, potential difference maker, for the next few years. Plus he's on pace for about 20 goals this year and that'd be a lot to lose from the roster unless the Flyers sent Laughton or Konecny back and then the money just gets ridiculous.

Just my hope

 

[lasgop8]

Reading a lot of writers speculating about a potential Giroux to Colorado deal. Most of the articles seem to say the return could be something like Colorado's 1st and one of their 2nd tier prospects like Helleson or maybe Barron. Plus a current roster player to make the salaries work (Jost or Compher seem to be the ones mentioned there).

Rather than go 1st and 2nd tier prospects, I would rather see the Flyers do what it takes to get just Newhook. Is Giroux for Newhook straight up a fair deal? Or Giroux+ for Newhook? I think it's weird that you rarely see deals where the seller adds to the deal to get the better prospect. The Avs seem to be drawing a line and saying Newhook and Byram aren't available. But what if it's like Giroux and a 2nd for just Newhook? Or Giroux, Braun, and a draft pick, for Newhook and some cap dumps?

I'd rather see Fletcher approach deals in that regard, than to just get quantity back for Giroux.

I would take Newhook straight up especially if we could sign Gee back at a reduced rate next year.

i have read a lot of articles saying Newhook is off the table for Gee.

 

[lasgop8]

Yep, they need to go big or not at all. Mediocre is just going to breed mediocrity.

Hey our organization has fostered mediocrity for the last decade so why change now.

 

[lasgop8]

On Travis Konecny and good players on bad teams

Travis Konecny doesn’t look like he’s the superstar we maybe thought he was two years ago. But he is definitely good. What do we do with that?

www.broadstreethockey.com

 

[purdue81]

On Travis Konecny and good players on bad teams

Travis Konecny doesn’t look like he’s the superstar we maybe thought he was two years ago. But he is definitely good. What do we do with that?

www.broadstreethockey.com

Of course he’s just letting shots rip as the writing speculates. Why not ? It’s not like they’ve been able to have any chemistry at all this year.

 

[lasgop8]

Of course he’s just letting shots rip as the writing speculates. Why not ? It’s not like they’ve been able to have any chemistry at all this year.

He gets no respect on this board despite having just 8 less points than Giroux despite a lot less money.

 

[lasgop8]

NHL trade deadline: Underrated target Justin Braun knows his situation with Flyers

With the March 21 NHL trade deadline ahead, steady Flyers defenseman Justin Braun is not oblivious to the fact that he could be playing for another team soon. By Jordan Hall

www.yahoo.com

 

[purdue81]

He gets no respect on this board despite having just 8 less points than Giroux despite a lot less money.

I’m a TK fan ——. I’ve said before, not the sharpest tool in the shed, but when he’s “on” the dude is a Tasmanian devil. So hard to evaluate the “youngsters” with all the turmoil.

 

[lasgop8]

I’m a TK fan ——. I’ve said before, not the sharpest tool in the shed, but when he’s “on” the dude is a Tasmanian devil. So hard to evaluate the “youngsters” with all the turmoil.

I agree and i dont see him going anywhere so ill take him being a 50-60 point man to go along with his energy and feistiness. His play merits his salary IMO.

 

[lasgop8]

Justin Braun rumor links him with teams like Calgary Boston Toronto and Nashville.

 

[lasgop8]

I just read a trade rumor with Jeff Petry saying we are an option for him to be traded to.

 

[awaz]

He gets no respect on this board despite having just 8 less points than Giroux despite a lot less money.

I like TK. He's just less impactful than I hoped for, and than the Flyers needed him to be. A 50ish point guy that agitates is a fine middle-six guy. But that's not nearly enough production for a top 6, 1st PP guy.

I think the Broad Street Hockey podcast summed him up perfectly a couple weeks ago. He's a guy you love to have as a 3rd liner that's capable of chipping in offensively and driving opponents crazy. Plus he can move up in the lineup when someone gets hurt. Unfortunately, the Flyers need him to be more than that.

When he put up 61 points in 66 games in 2019-20, the hope was he could be more than that. He's been a disappointment since. And a contributing factor as to why the Flyers have disappointed since. I think that's fair to say. Maybe we set expectations for him too high, but most of the guys under 30 on this roster fall in to that bucket.

And before anyone jumps all over that, he's obviously not the only reason they've disappointed.

 

[lasgop8]

I like TK. He's just less impactful than I hoped for, and than the Flyers needed him to be. A 50ish point guy that agitates is a fine middle-six guy. But that's not nearly enough production for a top 6, 1st PP guy.

I think the Broad Street Hockey podcast summed him up perfectly a couple weeks ago. He's a guy you love to have as a 3rd liner that's capable of chipping in offensively and driving opponents crazy. Plus he can move up in the lineup when someone gets hurt. Unfortunately, the Flyers need him to be more than that.

When he put up 61 points in 66 games in 2019-20, the hope was he could be more than that. He's been a disappointment since. And a contributing factor as to why the Flyers have disappointed since. I think that's fair to say. Maybe we set expectations for him too high, but most of the guys under 30 on this roster fall in to that bucket.

And before anyone jumps all over that, he's obviously not the only reason they've disappointed.

If Jake Voracek is a top 6 player and we all know he is than TK is certainly a top 6 player.

 

[lasgop8]

I like TK. He's just less impactful than I hoped for, and than the Flyers needed him to be. A 50ish point guy that agitates is a fine middle-six guy. But that's not nearly enough production for a top 6, 1st PP guy.

I think the Broad Street Hockey podcast summed him up perfectly a couple weeks ago. He's a guy you love to have as a 3rd liner that's capable of chipping in offensively and driving opponents crazy. Plus he can move up in the lineup when someone gets hurt. Unfortunately, the Flyers need him to be more than that.

When he put up 61 points in 66 games in 2019-20, the hope was he could be more than that. He's been a disappointment since. And a contributing factor as to why the Flyers have disappointed since. I think that's fair to say. Maybe we set expectations for him too high, but most of the guys under 30 on this roster fall in to that bucket.

And before anyone jumps all over that, he's obviously not the only reason they've disappointed.

I also disagree that he is not a first PP guy.

Giroux 1st PP minutes all season 11 points
The great 7 million dollar PP specialist JVR 6 points on top PP
TK gets the scraps left over with 2PP minutes 7 points

Either Giroux is way overrated of TK is being undervalued

 

[awaz]

If Jake Voracek is a top 6 player and we all know he is than TK is certainly a top 6 player.

On a contender, I don't really agree with that. Not at almost 33 years old. Age is the difference, we expected Jake to decline because he's getting old. TK is 24. He was supposed to get better from 2019-20 (his age 21 season) and he got worse. That's disappointing and bad for the rebuild. Jake and G getting worse as they get into their 30s was expected, that's what happens to hockey players. Someone was supposed to take over top-line, star-caliber, impact player status from guys like G and Jake. I think we all hoped, after 2019-20 that Konecny would be one of those guys. We expected Patrick as a #2 overall pick, to be one of those guys. Frost put up crazy numbers in Juniors that led us to believe he could be one of those guys. Provorov was talked about as a future Norris candidate a couple seasons ago and could have been one to be an impact guy.

But none of them became that. G and Jake were left to carry the 'impact player' mantel as they aged out of being impact players. I don't put that on G/Jake, nothing they could do about getting old. Hextall's picks, namely guys like Konecny, Patrick, and Provorov, weren't good enough. Either Hextall drafted the wrong guys or those guys didn't reach their ceiling. More likely, a combination of both. And the Flyers have cratered as a result.

 

[awaz]

I also disagree that he is not a first PP guy.

Giroux 1st PP minutes all season 11 points
The great 7 million dollar PP specialist JVR 6 points on top PP
TK gets the scraps left over with 2PP minutes 7 points

Either Giroux is way overrated of TK is being undervalued

I'm not sure what the split is for TK. But what I was getting at is that he has played a big chunk of this season on PP1. I'd be curious to see the numbers. But he hasn't been a difference maker there. And that's a problem for the Flyers. Maybe it's unfair to TK and he was never going to be that guy, but given how other things have shaken out (Frost, Patrick, the handful of 1st rounders that haven't panned out at all), the Flyers needed him to be that guy. They didn't have any other option. And he hasn't been that guy.

JvR has been awful this season. I'm not really sure what you're getting at bringing him up. I've never said anything about liking JvR over TK. Anyone in their right mind would take TK over JvR every single time.

As for rating Giroux vs. TK. Giroux is on pace to finish 15 points ahead of TK and brings more defensively than TK. TK brings more energy/physicality. All those things taken into account, Giroux is still the better player. Sure, maybe not 3.5M more, but he's still the better player. And that is exactly what I'm getting at. Giroux at 33, being better than TK at 24, is a contributing factor to the Flyers being bad. Not the only factor. But a contributing one. Giroux's decline, also a contributing factor. The bottom 6 being filled with AHL-caliber players, also a contributing factor.

When I am pointing out the shortcomings of TK, it has always been in response to you pinning everything on Giroux. The truth is, the Flyers have had lots of problems.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

The biggest piece to our defensive puzzle is Ryan Ellis, but he's only been available for 4 out of 49 games and is probably done for the season. Massive ouch!! I think one could argue that having him 100% healthy and playing 23 minutes per game on the top pair changes everything for us defensively. He's arguably an elite level defenseman that does it all. Put him anywhere and he's successful offensively and defensively.

The point is this is a guy we already have and he's signed for 5 more seasons. We just need to get him healthy.

Most definitely but to be a good team you can't rely on one guy or have your season fall apart. To be fair they had many players injured but they still need a lot of help on D.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

I'm not sure what the split is for TK. But what I was getting at is that he has played a big chunk of this season on PP1. I'd be curious to see the numbers. But he hasn't been a difference maker there. And that's a problem for the Flyers. Maybe it's unfair to TK and he was never going to be that guy, but given how other things have shaken out (Frost, Patrick, the handful of 1st rounders that haven't panned out at all), the Flyers needed him to be that guy. They didn't have any other option. And he hasn't been that guy.

JvR has been awful this season. I'm not really sure what you're getting at bringing him up. I've never said anything about liking JvR over TK. Anyone in their right mind would take TK over JvR every single time.

As for rating Giroux vs. TK. Giroux is on pace to finish 15 points ahead of TK and brings more defensively than TK. TK brings more energy/physicality. All those things taken into account, Giroux is still the better player. Sure, maybe not 3.5M more, but he's still the better player. And that is exactly what I'm getting at. Giroux at 33, being better than TK at 24, is a contributing factor to the Flyers being bad. Not the only factor. But a contributing one. Giroux's decline, also a contributing factor. The bottom 6 being filled with AHL-caliber players, also a contributing factor.

When I am pointing out the shortcomings of TK, it has always been in response to you pinning everything on Giroux. The truth is, the Flyers have had lots of problems.

When you suck and have this many injuries everyone's numbers go down. When they were healthier and winning earlier in the year magically everyone looked good. I can see guys like TK bouncing back because he's young but to hammer G right now is ridiculous. What exactly is he supposed to do right now the lineup sucks around him?

 

[awaz]

Most definitely but to be a good team you can't rely on one guy or have your season fall apart. To be fair they had many players injured but they still need a lot of help on D.

Yep, agreed. the injuries obviously hurt. When your top two C's and your top d-man miss significant portions of the season, almost every team is going to struggle.

But what the Flyers are doing is beyond struggling. They're staring down the barrel of a third 10 game losing streak in a single season.