21-22 Season - Jekyll or Hyde ?

[wbon22]

In my head, I know that if the Flyers were healthy, they would not be this bad. That said, I don't think they would have been good enough.
All the injuries have revealed is that there was too much reliance on certain players to do all of the scoring.
It has also shown a light on how weak the Phantoms are. How thin the organization is in certain positions.

Fletcher going after Ellis was a high risk, high return move....but the return was not so high. They clearly fouled that one off.
The Risto trade looked like a high price if they don't resign him...guess what, I don't think they will.

Now we are waiting for Fletcher to move Claude Giroux. The same Risto that he over paid for, and who knows else.

I love this team, but my it is hard.

 

[Sparhawk]

I would have liked to have seen them pull the goalie when they had that power play with 5' left down 2-1.
I mean, what do you have to lose?

Ratcliffe and JVR in front of the net would force the other team to commit two players to them, which leaves 4 on 2.

Be bold.

 

[lasgop8]

I would have liked to have seen them pull the goalie when they had that power play with 5' left down 2-1.
I mean, what do you have to lose?

Ratcliffe and JVR in front of the net would force the other team to commit two players to them, which leaves 4 on 2.

Be bold.

I agree 100%

 

[lasgop8]

In my head, I know that if the Flyers were healthy, they would not be this bad. That said, I don't think they would have been good enough.
All the injuries have revealed is that there was too much reliance on certain players to do all of the scoring.
It has also shown a light on how weak the Phantoms are. How thin the organization is in certain positions.

Fletcher going after Ellis was a high risk, high return move....but the return was not so high. They clearly fouled that one off.
The Risto trade looked like a high price if they don't resign him...guess what, I don't think they will.

Now we are waiting for Fletcher to move Claude Giroux. The same Risto that he over paid for, and who knows else.

I love this team, but my it is hard.

i agree 100% Hope we can get something good back for Risto and not lose a 1st and a 2nd and a player.

 

[lasgop8]

I'm not sure what the split is for TK. But what I was getting at is that he has played a big chunk of this season on PP1. I'd be curious to see the numbers. But he hasn't been a difference maker there. And that's a problem for the Flyers. Maybe it's unfair to TK and he was never going to be that guy, but given how other things have shaken out (Frost, Patrick, the handful of 1st rounders that haven't panned out at all), the Flyers needed him to be that guy. They didn't have any other option. And he hasn't been that guy.

JvR has been awful this season. I'm not really sure what you're getting at bringing him up. I've never said anything about liking JvR over TK. Anyone in their right mind would take TK over JvR every single time.

As for rating Giroux vs. TK. Giroux is on pace to finish 15 points ahead of TK and brings more defensively than TK. TK brings more energy/physicality. All those things taken into account, Giroux is still the better player. Sure, maybe not 3.5M more, but he's still the better player. And that is exactly what I'm getting at. Giroux at 33, being better than TK at 24, is a contributing factor to the Flyers being bad. Not the only factor. But a contributing one. Giroux's decline, also a contributing factor. The bottom 6 being filled with AHL-caliber players, also a contributing factor.

When I am pointing out the shortcomings of TK, it has always been in response to you pinning everything on Giroux. The truth is, the Flyers have had lots of problems.

Im not saying you are defending JVR now but you have in the past and i quote you as calling him a "PP specialist" and me bringing him up is to show that TK is a first PP guy which you said he's not yesterday. He's not a difference maker but he can play first PP and play it well enough to stay.

Im not blaming Giroux for our loses as he has played well. Im bringing up Giroux because he only has 11 points on the PP1 where as TK only played PP1 after all the injuries and still has 7 points to Gees 11. Which makes him a legit PP1 guy.

Pointing out that Giroux is the better player is obvious to anybody who watches hockey. I brought up the comparison of earning points per salary. Gee makes 33% more money than TK and gets all the praise in the world from you. TK is only now 7 points behind Gee and plays with grit and you say he's a bottom 6 player.

Either Gee is being overrated by you or you are undervaluing TK. This is not to say Gee is a bad player just saying that TK is a good player and not getting his due.

 

[lasgop8]

W

When you suck and have this many injuries everyone's numbers go down. When they were healthier and winning earlier in the year magically everyone looked good. I can see guys like TK bouncing back because he's young but to hammer G right now is ridiculous. What exactly is he supposed to do right now the lineup sucks around him?

Who was hammering Gee? I think he's had a very good season. Pointing out that TK is only 7 points behind Gee and makes 33% less money is not to say Gee is bad its to say TK is being undervalued on this board.

 

[lasgop8]

Yep, agreed. the injuries obviously hurt. When your top two C's and your top d-man miss significant portions of the season, almost every team is going to struggle.

But what the Flyers are doing is beyond struggling. They're staring down the barrel of a third 10 game losing streak in a single season.

3 ten games losing streak very well may happen. I cant believe it. Who would've thunk it after our first 5 games.

 

[lasgop8]

Gerry Mayhew is a lot of fun to watch. He's like a little ball of energy with and plays with a big heart.

 

[lasgop8]

The Athletic has our prospects ranked in this order.

If Ratcliffe is our 16th best prospect boy are we going to be really good unless the Athletic is just really bad a ranking prospects.



1-Cam York
2-Igor Zamula
3-Bobby Brink
4-Tyson Foerster
5-Wade Allison
6-Emil Andrae
7-Ronnie Attard
8-Sam Errson
9-Elliot Desnoyers
10- Jay O'Brien
11-Zayde Wisdom
12-Tanner Lacyznski
13-Samu Tuomaala
14- Olle Lycksell
15-Noah cates
16- Ike Ratcliffe
17-Ivan Fedatov
18- Connor Mclennon
19-Felix sandstrom
20-Aleksi Kolosov

 

[lasgop8]

It was nice to see Brayden Schenn back at his old stomping grounds still playing at the top of his game.
15 goals and 28 points in 33 games

It was also nice to see Chief Berube coaching behind a Wells Fargo bench with a team in a solid playoff position.

 

[lasgop8]

Three prospects the Flyers should have on their radar in trade talks

Get the youth in!

www.broadstreethockey.com

 

[awaz]

Im not saying you are defending JVR now but you have in the past and i quote you as calling him a "PP specialist" and me bringing him up is to show that TK is a first PP guy which you said he's not yesterday. He's not a difference maker but he can play first PP and play it well enough to stay.

Im not blaming Giroux for our loses as he has played well. Im bringing up Giroux because he only has 11 points on the PP1 where as TK only played PP1 after all the injuries and still has 7 points to Gees 11. Which makes him a legit PP1 guy.

Pointing out that Giroux is the better player is obvious to anybody who watches hockey. I brought up the comparison of earning points per salary. Gee makes 33% more money than TK and gets all the praise in the world from you. TK is only now 7 points behind Gee and plays with grit and you say he's a bottom 6 player.

Either Gee is being overrated by you or you are undervaluing TK. This is not to say Gee is a bad player just saying that TK is a good player and not getting his due.

You've blamed G in the past, that's why I commented that way. Didn't mean you were harping on him this year.

To the PP discussion, the Flyers PP this season is dreadful. All of them, G included, have not been PP1 worthy this season. The only reason I still say G is PP1 guy is because he's been an extremely good PP guy in the past which might suggest he's not the problem. But 11 points absolutely isn't cutting it either. And TK doesn't have the history to overcome the black eye that is the Flyers 2021-22 PP. I think they showed a stat a couple games ago that the Flyers are like 2 for their last 40 something on the PP.

I'm all for any change to the PP. Take G off it. Take TK off it. Take the whole PP1 group and have them watch the plugs mess around with an extra guy. This season they've been absolutely terrible.

 

[lasgop8]

You've blamed G in the past, that's why I commented that way. Didn't mean you were harping on him this year.

To the PP discussion, the Flyers PP this season is dreadful. All of them, G included, have not been PP1 worthy this season. The only reason I still say G is PP1 guy is because he's been an extremely good PP guy in the past which might suggest he's not the problem. But 11 points absolutely isn't cutting it either. And TK doesn't have the history to overcome the black eye that is the Flyers 2021-22 PP. I think they showed a stat a couple games ago that the Flyers are like 2 for their last 40 something on the PP.

I'm all for any change to the PP. Take G off it. Take TK off it. Take the whole PP1 group and have them watch the plugs mess around with an extra guy. This season they've been absolutely terrible.

I never blamed Gee in the past for losing, just not being good enough as a top player for us to win a cup. . I always have said he's a good player just a shitty captain and I still maintain that same stance as I have had in the past. Good player (not good enough to win us a cup) bad leader.

If you want to make a change to the PP1 its not to take Gee off of it and not to take TK off. The answer is pretty simple . Take JVR off he sucks!!!!

FYI I looked it up Gee gets 3:10 PP time per game and TK only gets 2:40. That's 5 minutes more than a full period Gee has played with a man advantage over TK and only has 4 more points.

 

[awaz]

3 ten games losing streak very well may happen. I cant believe it. Who would've thunk it after our first 5 games.

No kidding. What a depressing season it has been.

 

[purdue81]

I never blamed Gee in the past for losing, just not being good enough as a top player for us to win a cup. . I always have said he's a good player just a shitty captain and I still maintain that same stance as I have had in the past. Good player (not good enough to win us a cup) bad leader.

If you want to make a change to the PP1 its not to take Gee off of it and not to take TK off. The answer is pretty simple . Take JVR off he sucks!!!!

FYI I looked it up Gee gets 3:10 PP time per game and TK only gets 2:40. That's 5 minutes more than a full period Gee has played with a man advantage over TK and only has 4 more points.

So what would Gee's new contract look like if he comes back to the Flyers ? 3 years at $4.5MM / yr ?

 

[lasgop8]

So what would Gee's new contract look like if he comes back to the Flyers ? 3 years at $4.5MM / yr ?

I would try for 2 years 5 million per season but if he needs more years or money its time to move on.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

No kidding. What a depressing season it has been.

That's why I can't stand to watch this shit show, I hate having to tune in only to see that Yandle is still playing top tier minutes, and Yeo constantly not knowing what the hell he's doing. Still not sure what we're waiting for as far as a new coach.

 

[lasgop8]

That's why I can't stand to watch this shit show, I hate having to tune in only to see that Yandle is still playing top tier minutes, and Yeo constantly not knowing what the hell he's doing. Still not sure what we're waiting for as far as a new coach.

You're missing the young guys like Isaac Ratcliffe coming out party and the mighty mite Gerry Mayhew with 6 goals in 17 games. You're missing things like the Laughton TK and Lindblom line coming of age and Sanheim playing better than ever before. When you know winning is not an option anymore you have to find other points of interest.

 

[awaz]

IMO if G leaves at the deadline he's gone for good. The attachment will be broken, and in all reality the two probably don't fit that well together once the attachment is broken. G will be looking for a team that can compete for a cup in 1-2 years, and I expect he'd be willing to take a short term / lower cap hit deal to get it done.

Meanwhile the Flyers need to be looking for a difference maker for the next 3-5 years. The 8.5M that G clears can be better spent in that 3-5 year horizon than on a short deal for Giroux. A short deal for Giroux helps maintain mediocrity (or worse). It cuts their spending money down in the short term and prevents them from acquiring someone who can make a difference over the long term.

It would've been different had the Flyers been more competitive this year. Or if they looked like they could bounce back in a big way next year without significant offseason investment. But neither of those things are true. Time to turn the page on Giroux, as much as it saddens me to say.

8M for 7 years of Gaudreau is a better risk/reward than 5M for 2 years of Giroux and whatever they can get for the other 3M. IMO it's a huge risk given Gaudreau's huge 'contract year bump' compared to his last couple years, but if the Flyers brass insists on "turning this around quickly", that's the kind of move they'll have to do.

 

[lasgop8]

IMO if G leaves at the deadline he's gone for good. The attachment will be broken, and in all reality the two probably don't fit that well together once the attachment is broken. G will be looking for a team that can compete for a cup in 1-2 years, and I expect he'd be willing to take a short term / lower cap hit deal to get it done.

Meanwhile the Flyers need to be looking for a difference maker for the next 3-5 years. The 8.5M that G clears can be better spent in that 3-5 year horizon than on a short deal for Giroux. A short deal for Giroux helps maintain mediocrity (or worse). It cuts their spending money down in the short term and prevents them from acquiring someone who can make a difference over the long term.

It would've been different had the Flyers been more competitive this year. Or if they looked like they could bounce back in a big way next year without significant offseason investment. But neither of those things are true. Time to turn the page on Giroux, as much as it saddens me to say.

8M for 7 years of Gaudreau is a better risk/reward than 5M for 2 years of Giroux and whatever they can get for the other 3M. IMO it's a huge risk given Gaudreau's huge 'contract year bump' compared to his last couple years, but if the Flyers brass insists on "turning this around quickly", that's the kind of move they'll have to do.

I agree with all of this.

Im hoping our high draft pick this year will net us a difference maker on top of signing one.