2023 Off Season Thread

[Kings4OT]

Ive explained a few times in this thread how the moves fit for next season. Is the salary your talking about for guys that will decline next year? Are those contracts up next year? would PLD be available next year with Gavrikov? If the move was not made Kings would be 3.8 for Legend and 4 for Iafallo anyways....

 

[Kings4OT]

Doesnt mean they dont have a shot in the weak west this season and can see a move made at deadline for G if its looking good....but 2 goalies signed for this season, Kopistar cap going down, non core guys cap going away and NHL cap going up all point to a G signing next season

 

[CaptHowdy00]

Found this by accident while searching for something else. List of UFA Goalies available 2024 and their Cap hit for this year.

2024 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Kings4OT]

Found this by accident while searching for something else. List of UFA Goalies available 2024 and their Cap hit for this year.

2024 NHL Free Agents

Tracking the status and signings of all NHL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

So besides helly, do you see a "win now" G?

 

[histkng23]

I didn't know where to put this, but as much as we criticize Kings development, Bruins are on another level.

Seriously!! If you look at their drafts, since 2007, only 2 players have played 700+ games (Dougie Hamilton & Tyler Seguin).

Boston Bruins Draft History at hockeydb.com

www.hockeydb.com

IMO, think the basic knock on Blake & Co. has been their reliance on drafting "skill" over anything, rather than just true "hockey players". I remember seeing a clip of the draft table in 2018, right after the Kings drafted Akil Thomas, and Yanetti is saying to Blake, "You wanted some skill, I got you some fuckin' skill!"

 

[histkng23]

That's the issue, it's a fraternity again like the last years under Taylor's regime.

Emerson, Greene, OD, Murray, Stoll, all ex Kings. Murray and OD are long time drinking buddies going back to their Manhattan Beach volleyball days, don't think they are going anywhere and Emerson is Bowlbys best friend.

Dumbo cleaned house down to the facility cleaners in 2006, I think if the Kings flame out again next April moving both Robitialle and Blake should be seriously considered.

To be frank, and I could be off base, but I think AEG needs to clean house, starting with Beckerman. Since he assumed the position from Leiweke in 2013 or early 2014, don't think AEG's was able to continue the success they were having (Entertainment Venues, Downtown LA, branching into Hollywood production) leading up to 2012. As much as we bashed Leiweke from 1998-2012, dude was passionate about the Kings, and was visible. He was the one that brought Lombardi in, to completely build the team the right way after it was falling to pieces in the latter years of Taylor's reign.

But I definitely agree with you, when Luc & Blake orchestrated "The Coup", and placed all their old teammates from the early/mid 90's into development positions with in the organization, doesn't look good. Especially, when you consider none of them actually won anything, which imo, leads to a lack of successful knowledge to pass along. It may sound harsh, but if you haven't won at various levels, I don't see it manifesting into a winning culture at the pro level. I'm not saying they aren't professionals, and well respected. I'm just saying it's hard to cultivate a winning culture, when you've never experienced winning...

 

[PuckinUgly57]

So besides helly, do you see a "win now" G?

Keep an eye on the Jeremy Swayman arbitration situation - Boston has historically not kept players who have gone to arbitration dating back to the first ever arbitration award rejection in 1999 (Kristich, who became a UFA and signed with the Leafs). The list is long but some big name others include:

- 2001 Bill Guerin $5.1 million, left for Dallas as UFA
- 2003 Berard $2.51 million, Boston declined, signed with Chicago as a UFA
- 2004 Gonchar $5.5 million, lockout happened so contract never happened, signed with Pittsburgh when hockey resumed
- 2004 Thornton $6.5 million, traded to SJ in November 2005

My point: Boston and players who go to arbitration - or even who file for them - end up with strained relationships and the player leaves freely or by trade shortly after. Seems like it just pisses Boston management off.

They are in a cap situation with roughly $5.5 million cap space left but still have Swayman and Frederic to sign (who also filed for arbitration) and no 1C or 2C with Bergeron and Krejci up in the air. I don't think they'll let Swayman walk but they have Ulmark under contract for 2 more years at $5 million AAV. They form quite a tandem but are somewhat redundant as 1As; if Swayman gets anywhere near $4 million, they have a problem. Samsonov was just awarded 1 year/$3.55 million today who is a comp.

I think they would accept the decision for a 2 year term and start shopping him. They also have a guy named Brandon Bussi in Providence who is 24 and shows promise who would replace him on the NHL roster on a cheap contract.

This is the type of move I would expect from Bowlby; Swayman is only 24, proven and fits the age line for the team. Of course it will cost more assets, but based on the Bruins cap situation Blake may have some leverage but they won't be giving Swayman away.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Seriously!! If you look at their drafts, since 2007, only 2 players have played 700+ games (Dougie Hamilton & Tyler Seguin).

Boston Bruins Draft History at hockeydb.com

www.hockeydb.com

IMO, think the basic knock on Blake & Co. has been their reliance on drafting "skill" over anything, rather than just true "hockey players". I remember seeing a clip of the draft table in 2018, right after the Kings drafted Akil Thomas, and Yanetti is saying to Blake, "You wanted some skill, I got you some fuckin' skill!"

And look at that, Thomas is perpetually injured, a 2nd round pick and will likely never see NHL ice - not in a Kings uniform anyway.

He will be 24 in January, has never played more than 40 games in the AHL and has a career high goals scored of 11 in a season (and that was 3 years ago). Not seeing much of the "skill" he drafted, I'm of the school of thought they go for character more than skill which has left a lot of better players on the table other teams have drafted. I don't think a truly skilled prospect vs 200 foot player would hurt the depth pool now and again.

Yanetti is a self absorbed clown.

 

[Kings4OT]

Keep an eye on the Jeremy Swayman arbitration situation - Boston has historically not kept players who have gone to arbitration dating back to the first ever arbitration award rejection in 1999 (Kristich, who became a UFA and signed with the Leafs). The list is long but some big name others include:

- 2001 Bill Guerin $5.1 million, left for Dallas as UFA
- 2003 Berard $2.51 million, Boston declined, signed with Chicago as a UFA
- 2004 Gonchar $5.5 million, lockout happened so contract never happened, signed with Pittsburgh when hockey resumed
- 2004 Thornton $6.5 million, traded to SJ in November 2005

My point: Boston and players who go to arbitration - or even who file for them - end up with strained relationships and the player leaves freely or by trade shortly after. Seems like it just pisses Boston management off.

They are in a cap situation with roughly $5.5 million cap space left but still have Swayman and Frederic to sign (who also filed for arbitration) and no 1C or 2C with Bergeron and Krejci up in the air. I don't think they'll let Swayman walk but they have Ulmark under contract for 2 more years at $5 million AAV. They form quite a tandem but are somewhat redundant as 1As; if Swayman gets anywhere near $4 million, they have a problem. Samsonov was just awarded 1 year/$3.55 million today who is a comp.

I think they would accept the decision for a 2 year term and start shopping him. They also have a guy named Brandon Bussi in Providence who is 24 and shows promise who would replace him on the NHL roster on a cheap contract.

This is the type of move I would expect from Bowlby; Swayman is only 24, proven and fits the age line for the team. Of course it will cost more assets, but based on the Bruins cap situation Blake may have some leverage but they won't be giving Swayman away.

I missed Swayman On that list, But that's not a list of goalies you hope will win you a cup....

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Swayman isn't on that list, he is an RFA who filed for arbitration this summer. Since he elected to go, Boston controls term of either 1 or 2 years. He will be 25 in November I believe so he's 3 years away from UFA status.

I think Boston will elect 2 years, which brings him to 26 but will start shopping him this season with a potential trade happening next summer. He will still have 1 year left on his arbitration deal, only 25 and still 2 years away from UFA. He will be a very attractive asset to Boston.

Which brings us to Bowlby and the idea he will go for a home run goalie next summer when some salaries go down, some come off the books and the cap goes up.

Since there really isn't a UFA goalie sans Hellebuyck worth a damn next summer, connect the dots...at IMO.

 

[Kings4OT]

And look at that, Thomas is perpetually injured, a 2nd round pick and will likely never see NHL ice - not in a Kings uniform anyway.

He will be 24 in January, has never played more than 40 games in the AHL and has a career high goals scored of 11 in a season (and that was 3 years ago). Not seeing much of the "skill" he drafted, I'm of the school of thought they go for character more than skill which has left a lot of better players on the table other teams have drafted. I don't think a truly skilled prospect vs 200 foot player would hurt the depth pool now and again.

Yanetti is a self absorbed clown.

I kinda hate going after prospects in positions you think you need.... Versus prospects that Look the most capable at the time. If you take the best player you can Always trade him for the player you need and he will be worth more

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I kinda hate going after prospects in positions you think you need.... Versus prospects that Look the most capable at the time. If you take the best player you can Always trade him for the player you need and he will be worth more

Drafting for need has its place but usually when you are rebuilding from the ground up like the Kings did in 2006.

But at some point that should stop and you take the BPA for this exact reason. Meanwhile these guys keep drafting character and miss out on guys who are actually *producing* at the NHL level now.

Then the injuries and lack of development kick in and we're stuck with the Turcottes, Byfields and what not of the world. Stupid ass strategy.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

To be frank, and I could be off base, but I think AEG needs to clean house, starting with Beckerman. Since he assumed the position from Leiweke in 2013 or early 2014, don't think AEG's was able to continue the success they were having (Entertainment Venues, Downtown LA, branching into Hollywood production) leading up to 2012. As much as we bashed Leiweke from 1998-2012, dude was passionate about the Kings, and was visible. He was the one that brought Lombardi in, to completely build the team the right way after it was falling to pieces in the latter years of Taylor's reign.

But I definitely agree with you, when Luc & Blake orchestrated "The Coup", and placed all their old teammates from the early/mid 90's into development positions with in the organization, doesn't look good. Especially, when you consider none of them actually won anything, which imo, leads to a lack of successful knowledge to pass along. It may sound harsh, but if you haven't won at various levels, I don't see it manifesting into a winning culture at the pro level. I'm not saying they aren't professionals, and well respected. I'm just saying it's hard to cultivate a winning culture, when you've never experienced winning...

Couldn’t have said it better.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

That last paragraph hits home. I've thought about it on a peripheral level, but this made me think even more: what have these guys done besides slay Manhattan Beach? Nothing.

The biggest argument could be Blake, he won a Cup with the Avalanche in 2001. My counter would be that team was so stacked it wouldn't have mattered if he was there or not. Bourque was the driver on that team, Bowlby joined at the right time and did OK but he wasn't the "piece". Bourque was and he was acquired the season before. They were going to win with or without Blake. They sign him to a 5 year/$45 million deal that summer and never win again until 2022.

So then you look at the others; Murray? Hit 40 goals after he was traded, never won anything. ODonnell, huge for Doughty's development (he was his first partner, remember?) but also never won. Emerson? Don't make me laugh, dude has 2 first names for a full name, changed his jersey number 3x (19, 17, 7) in his short stint as a King probably hoping that would revive his career*. Greene and Stoll were culture changing and they actually won something but Dumbo brought them in. But you know damn well they do not have the clout or influence his volleyball buddies do. They never even played together because Blake left in summer 2008 and that's when Lombardi made the trade for them moving Visnovsky to acquire Stoll and Greene, Blake went to SJ to collect another fat check as a UFA days after those 2 were acquired.

Dumbo never won anything either prior to the 2 Cups in LA, but his teams here exponentially grew and got better over time. I do not see that with this guy, and I'm not sure.if we will. It may take another GM to make it happen who isn't connecter to 99% of the staff.

*after Emerson was acquired, I said it was a bad deal. He does nothing to prove me otherwise. Back then we were on ESPN, and one morning I wake to a barrage of emails in my inbox. I was with Verizon at the time and.it was literally 15 emails in a row. Apparently this dude was related to Emerson and didn't like how I trashed him. You guys know what I did...trashed him some more and proved it with stats and facts.

Freaking F**kberger (who called him that, HistKings? Gold) made more of a difference than Emerson did.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

Eric Stephens: 2023 Rookie Faceoff (Las Vegas). Sept. 15 San... - The Athletic

2023 Rookie Faceoff (Las Vegas). Sept. 15 San Jose vs. L.A., 1 p.m.* Arizona vs. Colorado, 3:30 p.m.* Anaheim vs. Vegas, 7 p.m.^ Sept. 16 L.A. vs. Arizona...

theathletic.com

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I know Helenius was brought up earlier, and it would be nice if he ended up like his dad. But he had a poor camp and along with Thomas I don't see this guy ever making the NHL either.

Kings Development Camp Disappointments

After discussing the standout players at Los Angeles King’s development camp on Wednesday, it’s time to discuss some disappointing players. This comes with the obvious caveat that a poor showing at development camp doesn’t mean much. No one should write these players off or take too much from...

lahockeynow.com

I'm totally beating a dead horse, but for the love of God can someone from this great prospect pool make a f**king difference? The janitor? Lot attendant? Anyone?

If you follow the links from the article, you'll find some other stuff on players here for the long haul, others who could be moved, etc. Dog days of summer, any reading is good reading.

 

[Kings4OT]

I wish there was some way to get Pesce, but i would have the same issue as Car with term on the deal he wants. He is a great Dman but his body will break down and be a liability toward the end

 

[CaptHowdy00]

'Not many athletes get to do that': Bergeron retires at his peak with 'no regrets'

“I wanted to play the game at the highest level that I could,” said Bergeron. “I wanted to leave on top of my game and feeling good."

theathletic.com

Bergeron has retired.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Class act and arguably the steal of the 2003 draft. Dude was a warrior and a standard all players should look up to.

 

[histkng23]

Class act and arguably the steal of the 2003 draft. Dude was a warrior and a standard all players should look up to.

And to think, the Kings could have drafted him! Thank God Al Murray was director of scouting back then, what a tool....