Series Thread: 2023 NBA Finals: Heat vs. Nuggets

[shopson67]

It's just my opinion that to make my top of the top list of coaches I'd like to see a coach show he can do more with less. Phillip hasn't done that. Not a requirement for you (or others) and that's fine.

If you have a winning team, why would you quit and take on a losing team? You fear success? I guess we could ask Larry...

 

[trojanfan12]

Didn't really even criticize him. Just left him off my top 3 (said he's in the discussion for #4). Criteria for me to have made that top 3 included willing to take on a challenge and have done more with less. That's not Phillip.

Dude, you said he always looked for the easiest situation. If that's not criticism, I don't know what is.

 

[shopson67]

Fair. But the Heat have to finish better at the rim. That’s not a shot luck dynamic. Nuggets beat them in that component of the game. Heat couldn’t finish around the rim but it was because of what Denver did more so than some bad shot luck from the Heat.

 

[shopson67]

Dude, you said he always looked for the easiest situation. If that's not criticism, I don't know what is.

Which is silly, since he only was hired for one starting job. He was promoted from within for the 1st. Pre-NBA, he coached in the CBA and Puerto Rico, the easiest situations.

Always = once I guess?

 

[trojanfan12]

If you have a winning team, why would you quit and take on a losing team? You fear success? I guess we could ask Larry...

Exactly. As I've been saying, coaches look for teams that give them the best chance to win. If a coach is taking over a bad team, it's almost always because he lacks other options.

And if a coach with options is taking over a bad team, you can bet he's likely been promised input on the roster and given assurances that he will be given time to turn things around.

 

[dtgold88]

So you are just as biased being from Cleveland then as well, there is a valid case that Kareem and Magic were better than Lebron as well. My hatred for Lebron has nothing to do with his ranking, I despise Tom Brady too but acknowledge he is the GOAT qb.

Not so sure about Magic but whatever...either way a case can also be made Kareem's better than MJ if you believe this.

 

[dtgold88]

If you have a winning team, why would you quit and take on a losing team? You fear success? I guess we could ask Larry...

Whatever you deem the reasons he has not taken on much of a challenge nor shown he can do more with less. Something I'd want to see in the top 3. Hell, there might be someone I'm not thinking of who might be a better choice with that criteria than Phillip or Kerr but not coming to mind.

 

[dtgold88]

Dude, you said he always looked for the easiest situation. If that's not criticism, I don't know what is.

Fair point. But it's true and for my criteria I've made it clear I'd like to see a guy who will take up a challenge and do more with less. That's just not Phillip. Think if he were in Pop's situation he'd have hung around?

 

[shopson67]

Fair point. But it's true and for my criteria I've made it clear I'd like to see a guy who will take up a challenge and do more with less. That's just not Phillip. Think if he were in Pop's situation he'd have hung around?

Possibly, because he wouldn't have had to deal with Krause or Jimmy Buss.

 

[dtgold88]

Exactly. As I've been saying, coaches look for teams that give them the best chance to win. If a coach is taking over a bad team, it's almost always because he lacks other options.

And if a coach with options is taking over a bad team, you can bet he's likely been promised input on the roster and given assurances that he will be given time to turn things around.

If we were talking Phillip we might be hurting his coaching ability by also giving him control of the roster. Hell, I'd say if you made him the coach of a team he has to put together then he would be taking on a challenge as the coach.

 

[dtgold88]

Possibly, because he wouldn't have had to deal with Krause or Jimmy Buss.

I think you know the real answer, though.......I also think he puts up with Krause if he could have brought the entire band back.

Have to say it's not lost on me how much better Krause was at his job than Phillip or MJ when they tried to do it.

 

[trojanfan12]

Not so sure about Magic but whatever...either way a case can also be made Kareem's better than MJ if you believe this.

Yeah, I think most people have MJ, Kareem, Lebron and Magic in some order as their top 4 all time.

Personally, I have dropped Magic to #4 because Lebron has proven to be a bigger, stronger, faster version of Magic.

The order I have the other 3 in is pretty interchangeable as it's 3 different skill sets and ways to play. You can make a strong argument for any of those 3 depending on what you value most in a player.

 

[PPhan]

It's just my opinion that to make my top of the top list of coaches I'd like to see a coach show he can do more with less. Phillip hasn't done that. Not a requirement for you (or others) and that's fine.

Didn’t he take the Lakers to the playoffs in 05-06 and the 06-07 seasons? I’d say that’s him showing he could do more with less. Remember they missed the playoffs in 04-05 when he wasn’t coaching them.

As soon as he came back the next year, they made the playoffs the next 2 years with a pretty bad roster with the exception of Kobe of course and Lamar Odom.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, I think most people have MJ, Kareem, Lebron and Magic in some order as their top 4 all time.

Personally, I have dropped Magic to #4 because Lebron has proven to be a bigger, stronger, faster version of Magic.

The order I have the other 3 in is pretty interchangeable as it's 3 different skill sets and ways to play. You can make a strong argument for any of those 3 depending on what you value most in a player.

agree with Lebron, MJ and Kareem as top 3. Not sure most have Magic #4. I think you'd get a good number saying Bird, maybe some oldtimers saying Robertson or Wilt. Perhaps Kobe. I do think Magic might get the most votes at #4, though. He and Bird are definitely among my favorite non Cavaliers.

 

[shopson67]

I think you know the real answer, though.......I also think he puts up with Krause if he could have brought the entire band back.

Have to say it's not lost on me how much better Krause was at his job than Phillip or MJ when they tried to do it.

I know YOUR answer, not necessarily the real answer lol.

 

[dtgold88]

Didn’t he take the Lakers to the playoffs in 05-06 and the 06-07 seasons? I’d say that’s him showing he could do more with less. Remember they missed the playoffs in 04-05 when he wasn’t coaching them.

As soon as he came back the next year, they made the playoffs the next 2 years with a pretty bad roster with the exception of Kobe of course and Lamar Odom.

Previous year kobe and Odom missed 15 or so games each (as opposed to 2 in Jackson's first season). Hard to say it's "less" with arguably the best player in the sport. Not like he had a great season and went deep in playoffs. Won 45 and bounced in round 1. Worse the next season with only 40 wins, also bounced round 1 (Odom did miss around 15 games that year).

 

[dtgold88]

I know YOUR answer, not necessarily the real answer lol.

what is your answer? do you think he stays or goes if everyone comes back?

Or were you saying Phillip and/or MJ were better talent evaluators than Krause?

 

[trojanfan12]

agree with Lebron, MJ and Kareem as top 3. Not sure most have Magic #4. I think you'd get a good number saying Bird, maybe some oldtimers saying Robertson or Wilt. Perhaps Kobe. I do think Magic might get the most votes at #4, though. He and Bird are definitely among my favorite non Cavaliers.

Yeah, Magic and Bird are pretty even in my book. In that situation I see titles as the tiebreaker and Magic has 5 to Bird's 3.

Magic has 5 to Lebron's 4, but I moved Magic below Lebron because I think Lebron has created some separation between himself and Magic (which I hate saying, but I have eyes and at least a decent understanding of the game).

 

[shopson67]

what is your answer? do you think he stays or goes if everyone comes back?

Or were you saying Phillip and/or MJ were better talent evaluators than Krause?

Phil never should've been anything but a player and coach. MJ only a player.

The Krause/Phil relationship was toxic if not completely broken. And that's assuming Krause would've actually brought him back (probably only to abuse him more, then dump him again). I think Phil was gone regardless of the roster, and it wasn't likely not even his decision to make. Krause said so on enough occasions that he should be believed.

 

[dtgold88]

Phil never should've been anything but a player and coach. MJ only a player.

The Krause/Phil relationship was toxic if not completely broken. And that's assuming Krause would've actually brought him back (probably only to abuse him more, then dump him again). I think Phil was gone regardless of the roster, and it wasn't likely not even his decision to make. Krause said so on enough occasions that he should be believed.

agree with that first part.

Krause also said he would bring him back....but a fair opinion he would not come back no matter what. I disagree. I also think he'd have been out in Pop's situation. You?