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2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

lasgop8

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From the Athletic:

Lesson No. 1: Listen to the scouts​

It had been rumored and reported for years that the Flyers’ scouting department wasn’t exactly fully on board with the Patrick pick on draft day in 2017. But it was Flyers senior adviser (and franchise legend) Bob Clarke who removed any doubts that there was legitimate contention in the room that day, famously claiming on the The Cam & Strick Podcast that “none of our scouts wanted Patrick” and strongly implying that if the scouts had their way, the selection would have been Makar, who of course was en route to his first Norris Trophy and a Conn Smythe for added measure.

Now, based on my conversations with sources, I’m skeptical of some of that framing. For starters, my understanding is that the scouting department was essentially split on whether Makar or Heiskanen should have been the top prospect on the Flyers’ board at No. 2, and if anything, it was Heiskanen who had more support. But I do fully believe that Patrick wasn’t the favorite of many scouts, and Hextall went with Patrick anyway.

Now, in the end, it’s the GM’s call on every draft pick — particularly such an important one. And it’s important to remember that on draft day, the general industry consensus was that there was a two-player top-tier (Patrick and Nico Hischier), so taking one of the defensemen over Patrick would have been a serious against-the-grain pick and certainly would not have been well-received in the moment in Philadelphia. It’s certainly possible that the added pressure of being “not Nolan Patrick” would have hurt the development of the Flyers’ new selection, and history would have played out differently.

That said, talent generally wins out. And in this case, the organization’s scouts — who are paid to evaluate draft-eligible talent — weren’t sold on Patrick and were right to be skeptical. In retrospect, Hextall (and the rest of the organization) surely wishes that he went with their recommendations over drafting his fellow Brandon Wheat King.

The lesson here? There’s a reason why an organization employs and pays its scouts. While the front office ultimately needs to come to a consensus on a pick, the scouts — with the support of a robust analytics department — should be driving the decision. Otherwise, why send them all over the world in the first place? And if said scouts come to a consensus that doesn’t match up with the public sphere’s view of what the pick “should be?” That’s when a GM has to trust that his organization and his people are right, rather than veto them.
 

lasgop8

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Todays Flyers mock draft in the Athletic:

5. Philadelphia Flyers: Cutter Gauthier, LW/C, U.S. NTDP (USHL)

I’ve been hearing a lot about Gauthier and the Flyers as we get closer to draft day. I imagine this is a floor for Cooley if something surprising happens before this pick, such as Gauthier going at 3 or both defensemen being picked.
 

Retroram52

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Let's hope under WTF, Chuck that your first post, lasgop is now the MO for communications and transactions between Scouting, Analytics, and the GM otherwise we are back to the days of Hextall and his insanity.
 

lasgop8

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Let's hope under WTF, Chuck that your first post, lasgop is now the MO for communications and transactions between Scouting, Analytics, and the GM otherwise we are back to the days of Hextall and his insanity.
Please god let the management team heed your words!!! :nod:
 

Chris p Bacon

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Let's hope under WTF, Chuck that your first post, lasgop is now the MO for communications and transactions between Scouting, Analytics, and the GM otherwise we are back to the days of Hextall and his insanity.
Well if resigning Risto was any indication of communication then we're fucked. Such an udder waste of money IMO, just to save some face
 

Chris p Bacon

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From the Athletic:

Lesson No. 1: Listen to the scouts​

It had been rumored and reported for years that the Flyers’ scouting department wasn’t exactly fully on board with the Patrick pick on draft day in 2017. But it was Flyers senior adviser (and franchise legend) Bob Clarke who removed any doubts that there was legitimate contention in the room that day, famously claiming on the The Cam & Strick Podcast that “none of our scouts wanted Patrick” and strongly implying that if the scouts had their way, the selection would have been Makar, who of course was en route to his first Norris Trophy and a Conn Smythe for added measure.

Now, based on my conversations with sources, I’m skeptical of some of that framing. For starters, my understanding is that the scouting department was essentially split on whether Makar or Heiskanen should have been the top prospect on the Flyers’ board at No. 2, and if anything, it was Heiskanen who had more support. But I do fully believe that Patrick wasn’t the favorite of many scouts, and Hextall went with Patrick anyway.

Now, in the end, it’s the GM’s call on every draft pick — particularly such an important one. And it’s important to remember that on draft day, the general industry consensus was that there was a two-player top-tier (Patrick and Nico Hischier), so taking one of the defensemen over Patrick would have been a serious against-the-grain pick and certainly would not have been well-received in the moment in Philadelphia. It’s certainly possible that the added pressure of being “not Nolan Patrick” would have hurt the development of the Flyers’ new selection, and history would have played out differently.

That said, talent generally wins out. And in this case, the organization’s scouts — who are paid to evaluate draft-eligible talent — weren’t sold on Patrick and were right to be skeptical. In retrospect, Hextall (and the rest of the organization) surely wishes that he went with their recommendations over drafting his fellow Brandon Wheat King.

The lesson here? There’s a reason why an organization employs and pays its scouts. While the front office ultimately needs to come to a consensus on a pick, the scouts — with the support of a robust analytics department — should be driving the decision. Otherwise, why send them all over the world in the first place? And if said scouts come to a consensus that doesn’t match up with the public sphere’s view of what the pick “should be?” That’s when a GM has to trust that his organization and his people are right, rather than veto them.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
 

lasgop8

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Well if resigning Risto was any indication of communication then we're fucked. Such an udder waste of money IMO, just to save some face
Im not so much mad at the money we resigned him for its what we gave up for Risto in the first place and then we could've recouped some of it back and didn't. Instead we resigned him. The only thing we could hope for is Risto is the reason that Sanheim played so well last year.
 

lasgop8

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Hindsight is always 20/20.
This is not hindsight. The story is saying our scouts didn't want to draft Patrick in 2017 so that would be called foresight. The lesson is to listen to your scouts and not make the decision on your own and learn from the Hextall blunder.
 

Chris p Bacon

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This is not hindsight. The story is saying our scouts didn't want to draft Patrick in 2017 so that would be called foresight. The lesson is to listen to your scouts and not make the decision on your own and learn from the Hextall blunder.
I meant hindsight as in after seeing how it all played out. Hopefully upper management gives more thought as to what the scouts recommend going forward. You can never have too many good Dmen IMO.
 

Chris p Bacon

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Im not so much mad at the money we resigned him for its what we gave up for Risto in the first place and then we could've recouped some of it back and didn't. Instead we resigned him. The only thing we could hope for is Risto is the reason that Sanheim played so well last year.
The whole trade was a clusterfuck from the get go. Gave up way too much for a dude who was unproven at that point of his career. He's like an old wide receiver who got a great contract to play out his final days somewhere. Hope I'm wrong about him but I see him being at his ceiling for talent.
 

lasgop8

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The whole trade was a clusterfuck from the get go. Gave up way too much for a dude who was unproven at that point of his career. He's like an old wide receiver who got a great contract to play out his final days somewhere. Hope I'm wrong about him but I see him being at his ceiling for talent.
I agree i dont think you're wrong about him. I believe what we saw from him last year is what we will be getting for the rest of his contract. I just hope he was the one who gave Sanheim the confidence to move up and down the ice freely and they make a solid 2nd pair for us going forward.

Now we just have to concentrate on getting a good 1st pair. :pound:
 

Chris p Bacon

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I agree i dont think you're wrong about him. I believe what we saw from him last year is what we will be getting for the rest of his contract. I just hope he was the one who gave Sanheim the confidence to move up and down the ice freely and they make a solid 2nd pair for us going forward.

Now we just have to concentrate on getting a good 1st pair. :pound:
Yep, Ellis is either that wide receiver or he still has something left, hopefully some of the younger talent emerges and we can get somewhat solid on that end for a change. It'll be interesting to see where things go under Torts.
 

Retroram52

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Typical Hextall insanity. You watch, the Penguins are going to start to look like the present-day Flyers the longer Hextall has his grimy little fingers on that franchise. He just doesn't get it and obviously never will!!
 

Chris p Bacon

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Typical Hextall insanity. You watch, the Penguins are going to start to look like the present-day Flyers the longer Hextall has his grimy little fingers on that franchise. He just doesn't get it and obviously never will!!
Yea I would have gave him 3 years at best. He doesn't have 6 good seasons left in him. He is on the decline and he has def slowed down a ton.
 

Retroram52

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Well if resigning Risto was any indication of communication then we're fucked. Such an udder waste of money IMO, just to save some face
I would have wanted to be a fly-on-the-wall in that room with that discussion. WTF, Chuck saying one thing out in public and doing something entirely different behind closed doors because the douchebags at comcast believe the Flyers are one or two players away from being championship level. That is complete bullshit they have convinced themselves to be true. Dumbasses don't get it and probably never will.
 
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