2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[mall3013]

I wouldnt mind seeing Kimmo as our defensive coach.

I like this idea. I also like him as a scout in the Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Finland as well.

 

[purdue81]

Well, if Tort's and WTF Chuck are going to pattern their team building after the Avs or the Lightning, (and I have no evidence to suggest they are doing any of that), they would start with defense by finding an excellent goalie to pair with big, fast, and agressive defensemen. Their plan should be a 5-year deal with judicous draft choices that fit their intended mold and a revitalization of the farm system to find players of that caliber.

Next, you want to get the fiscal financial house in order and start removing over-paid, low productive players that don't do much to contribute to a winning culture. If you aren't accountable, your ass will be out the door. Trade succinctly and judiciously should be the order of the day. If possible, move players that are useless and scour the FAs available who can FIT their plan and system.

Periennial winning sports franchises don't tolerate losers in any of its variations. If you are not all-in, your ass is gone. It is that simple. If the two principals mentioned at the beginning are on that track, then we will see results, otherwise, we will see more of the same bullshit Flyers attempting to pose as champions while being nothing but ass-whipped douchebags.

WTF Retro for G M !!!!!!

 

[awaz]

This is the exact opposite of what Hextall did for us so hopefully someone in power reads your post.

It’s actually exactly what Hextall tried to do. Move out cap space and kinda suck for a year or two while you do it. Build through the draft with defense (Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, ghost) and goaltending (Hart, Ersson, Sandstrom) first. It’s exactly the script he followed.

He just picked the wrong guys or they didn’t develop.

But I agree 100% that they should do this. Try it again, it’s the right plan even if it didn’t work the first time. Just do it again, but pick/develop better. Don’t reverse course to trying to compete every year like it’s your last chance like they did in the Clarke/Homer eras.

 

[mall3013]

It’s actually exactly what Hextall tried to do. Move out cap space and kinda suck for a year or two while you do it. Build through the draft with defense (Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, ghost) and goaltending (Hart, Ersson, Sandstrom) first. It’s exactly the script he followed.

He just picked the wrong guys or they didn’t develop.

But I agree 100% that they should do this. Try it again, it’s the right plan even if it didn’t work the first time. Just do it again, but pick/develop better. Don’t reverse course to trying to compete every year like it’s your last chance like they did in the Clarke/Homer eras.

The Hinkie plan would do wonders for this franchise. Trust the process. This franchise won't copy what Hinkie did for Sixers though.

 

[awaz]

The Hinkie plan would do wonders for this franchise. Trust the process. This franchise won't copy what Hinkie did for Sixers though.

Yep. Hextall thought he could rebuild but keep G and Jake. He either overestimated his ability to build a contender without top 5 draft picks, or he underestimated how much G and Jake could do basically by themselves. Maybe a little of both. And he never found (or failed to develop) elite talent. Thus, the plan failed.

 

[purdue81]

How the Eastern Conference champion Lightning were built

The Tampa Bay Lightning are on the verge of making history. After punching their ticket to the Stanley Cup Final again on Saturday, the Bolts will look to become the first team since the early-'80s New York Islanders to win three straight titles. Given what's at stake, we're taking a deeper dive...

www.thescore.com

 

[Retroram52]

The Lightning have done exactly what awaz mentioned. They found those types of talent that fit their system and they had incredible success in developing them unlike Hextall.

 

[lasgop8]

It’s actually exactly what Hextall tried to do. Move out cap space and kinda suck for a year or two while you do it. Build through the draft with defense (Provorov, Sanheim, Hagg, ghost) and goaltending (Hart, Ersson, Sandstrom) first. It’s exactly the script he followed.

He just picked the wrong guys or they didn’t develop.

But I agree 100% that they should do this. Try it again, it’s the right plan even if it didn’t work the first time. Just do it again, but pick/develop better. Don’t reverse course to trying to compete every year like it’s your last chance like they did in the Clarke/Homer eras.

This should've been done two years ago when Giroux and Jake still had value and it was obvious to everyone we had no shot at a cup just a first round exit at the very best.

 

[mall3013]

The Lightning have done exactly what awaz mentioned. They found those types of talent that fit their system and they had incredible success in developing them unlike Hextall.

I wonder if it was easier to do in like a market such as TB vs a larger market in Philly to tank and draft and develop? Not sure if I'm explaining this well or not. I just remember how much backlash Hinkie got from around the league for what he did. I mean Phoenix and Utah were bad for a longer period and nobody gave them shit. Does this make sense?

 

[lasgop8]

Yep. Hextall thought he could rebuild but keep G and Jake. He either overestimated his ability to build a contender without top 5 draft picks, or he underestimated how much G and Jake could do basically by themselves. Maybe a little of both. And he never found (or failed to develop) elite talent. Thus, the plan failed.

He over estimated what Gee and Jake had to give a franchise. Two years ago they weren't stars if they ever were and they were treated as such.

 

[lasgop8]

I wonder if it was easier to do in like a market such as TB vs a larger market in Philly to tank and draft and develop? Not sure if I'm explaining this well or not. I just remember how much backlash Hinkie got from around the league for what he did. I mean Phoenix and Utah were bad for a longer period and nobody gave them shit. Does this make sense?

The Rangers had a team that made the playoffs 10 years in a row missed a season in the playoffs dumped all most of their good players and rebuilt to what you see today in 5 years.

 

[mall3013]

This should've been done two years ago when Giroux and Jake still had value and it was obvious to everyone we had no shot at a cup just a first round exit at the very best.

Very true. I think that things may had panned out differently with G and Jake as far as potential trades if the Flyers had kot overachieved during the pandemic bubble play. I mean look how bad the same roster was the following season. I mean I get it injuries happen, but they were beyond worse with or without the injuries bug.

 

[mall3013]

The Rangers had a team that made the playoffs 10 years in a row missed a season in the playoffs dumped all most of their good players and rebuilt to what you see today in 5 years.

Yup. Having a good and stable front office with good coaching followed by ownership who is on the same page helps. If only the Flyers took a page out of other franchises who are successful, that could turn things quickly. Btw, I read somewhere that Trotz was offered $7 million per to coach the Flyers and he turned it down. Instead he is het bought a house Nashville. I'm thinking he may be move into a management spot with the Preds. Anyway, this used to be a nice gig coaching in Philly. Not anymore. Did Torts even accept the job yet?

 

[lasgop8]

Yup. Having a good and stable front office with good coaching followed by ownership who is on the same page helps. If only the Flyers took a page out of other franchises who are successful, that could turn things quickly. Btw, I read somewhere that Trotz was offered $7 million per to coach the Flyers and he turned it down. Instead he is het bought a house Nashville. I'm thinking he may be move into a management spot with the Preds. Anyway, this used to be a nice gig coaching in Philly. Not anymore. Did Torts even accept the job yet?

If i was Trotz or Torterella i wouldn't take a rebuild job with our team but that's just me. I dont think Torts took the money yet but im assuming if its 7 million he will take the job.

Screw Trots and Nashville now they are new on my enemy list.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

That was a good game last night, I was pretty well hammered by the time it went to OT. The Avs team speed is no joke.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

If i was Trotz or Torterella i wouldn't take a rebuild job with our team but that's just me. I dont think Torts took the money yet but im assuming if its 7 million he will take the job.

Screw Trots and Nashville now they are new on my enemy list.

I'm waiting for an actual announcement, all these source reports are just rumors for now.

 

[awaz]

I wonder if it was easier to do in like a market such as TB vs a larger market in Philly to tank and draft and develop? Not sure if I'm explaining this well or not. I just remember how much backlash Hinkie got from around the league for what he did. I mean Phoenix and Utah were bad for a longer period and nobody gave them shit. Does this make sense?

I think the Flyers lack the infrastructure to do it right. At least, that seems to be the case. You have to have the right scouts, the right developmental coaches (ie not Lappy), the right farm system, the right plan/strategy for what you want your team to be. I don't think the Flyers had that in place during the Hextall years and it crippled them. And I don't see a lot of evidence that they've fixed that, not that we'd really know, those kinds of changes aren't typically very publicized.

And Snider, now Comcast, are big "throw money at the problem" owners. But they seem to want to throw big money at the top level (head coaches, free agents, etc.) for the quick fix, rather than throw money at the infrastructure to build a cup contender. And it handicaps them big time in the cap era.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

I think the Flyers lack the infrastructure to do it right. At least, that seems to be the case. You have to have the right scouts, the right developmental coaches (ie not Lappy), the right farm system, the right plan/strategy for what you want your team to be. I don't think the Flyers had that in place during the Hextall years and it crippled them. And I don't see a lot of evidence that they've fixed that, not that we'd really know, those kinds of changes aren't typically very publicized.

And Snider, now Comcast, are big "throw money at the problem" owners. But they seem to want to throw big money at the top level (head coaches, free agents, etc.) for the quick fix, rather than throw money at the infrastructure to build a cup contender. And it handicaps them big time in the cap era.

This is exactly their problem. They need new eyes out in scouting world plus a whole lot more.

 

[awaz]

The Rangers had a team that made the playoffs 10 years in a row missed a season in the playoffs dumped all most of their good players and rebuilt to what you see today in 5 years.

The Rangers had a major advantage in that Panarin only wanted to play in NY and Fox also wanted to be traded to them. A good way to jumpstart the rebuild is to add a Hart caliber forward who only wants to live in your city and a Norris caliber dman who essentially forces a trade to your team by refusing to sign a contract with anyone else.

https://sny.tv/articles/could-hurricanes-prospect-adam-fox-end-up-with-the-rangers

Rangers sign Artemi Panarin as Islanders come up empty

The Bread Man is coming to Broadway. After all the maneuvering and all the fretting, the Rangers got their man by signing 27-year-old winger Artemi Panarin to a seven-year, $81.5 million deal at th…

nypost.com

So they're not really a good comparable. Granted, the Flyers should strive to be a "destination team" like the Rangers are and they're far from it which is a major problem. But the Rangers "rebuild" isn't a typical rebuild. They were essentially handed two stars, fleeced Ottawa for Zibanejad, and hit a home run on the Shesterkin pick. Boom, top 10 team in the league.

A more realistic rebuild takes a few more years than what the Rangers did. Even if you do dump all your good players.

 

[lasgop8]

That was a good game last night, I was pretty well hammered by the time it went to OT. The Avs team speed is no joke.

The Avs are really good if it wasn't for those two crappy goals like a minute apart they would've won handily.