2021 NFL Draft Discussion thread

[cdumler7]

Well - that's the other reason not to mortgage a teams resources for college QB - they good get injured and then you have nothing - or a wasted year. It's hardly a good sign for Lamar Jackson to have a knee problem with his skill set.

What does it say about Lock then to have 2 seasons in a row injured? I know you said it was about mortgaging the future resources but I would say there are just as many examples of teams that did trade up and it worked out really well.

Chiefs with Mahomes I'm sure are not kicking themselves for trading away a 1st round pick for his services.
Bills with Allen. Gave up maybe even more capital to get their guy.
Houston before all the legal issues with Watson were loving their return.
Heck I about can bet the Eagles don't care what they gave up because Wentz helped them to win a Super Bowl even though he did have some injury problems.

 

[Mingo]

What does it say about Lock then to have 2 seasons in a row injured? I know you said it was about mortgaging the future resources but I would say there are just as many examples of teams that did trade up and it worked out really well.

Chiefs with Mahomes I'm sure are not kicking themselves for trading away a 1st round pick for his services.
Bills with Allen. Gave up maybe even more capital to get their guy.
Houston before all the legal issues with Watson were loving their return.
Heck I about can bet the Eagles don't care what they gave up because Wentz helped them to win a Super Bowl even though he did have some injury problems.

Those are good points too. However - Lock has not had great protection from the Oline especially in his 1st year. The way Lock ended year 1 is why I still hold out hope he can be a winning player. At the end of year one - Lock was having fun on the field - I did see that during his playing time all last year - which I attribute to the offense Shumur put him in.

 

[fightinredantz]

The debate that cdumler and Mingo are having is exactly what I would expect.

Lock had tape that gives you hope he can develop into a legit starting QB in the NFL, and you can find tape that leads you to think there is no way he can become a starting QB in the NFL. To me the biggest thing Denver needs from Lock to be successful is to limit turnovers. If Lock can have 10 or less total turnovers next year we will be in the playoffs.

To me the biggest tell on Lock is teams were contacting Denver to see if they where open to trading Lock. That tells me that there are teams out there that believe Lock can be a starting QB. They could be wrong, many teams thought Paxton Lynch was the real deal. They were wrong.

Tim Jenkins did a break down of Lock and he thought highly of him. I don’t know if Tim knows QB play, or if he has trained anyone that was successful at the NFL. What I do know is he seems to know more then me, and it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

 

[CEH]

The debate that cdumler and Mingo are having is exactly what I would expect.

Lock had tape that gives you hope he can develop into a legit starting QB in the NFL, and you can find tape that leads you to think there is no way he can become a starting QB in the NFL. To me the biggest thing Denver needs from Lock to be successful is to limit turnovers. If Lock can have 10 or less total turnovers next year we will be in the playoffs.

To me the biggest tell on Lock is teams were contacting Denver to see if they where open to trading Lock. That tells me that there are teams out there that believe Lock can be a starting QB. They could be wrong, many teams thought Paxton Lynch was the real deal. They were wrong.

Tim Jenkins did a break down of Lock and he thought highly of him. I don’t know if Tim knows QB play, or if he has trained anyone that was successful at the NFL. What I do know is he seems to know more then me, and it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

Jenkins trains HS kids here in Parker
His only claim to fame is PJ walker

 

[fightinredantz]

What do you guys think of Benjamin Juste? Seems like a guy that we could potentially develop as a later pick and potentially contribute next year if needed.

He had good size and tackles well. Based on what I read he is raw and needs some development.

 

[cdumler7]

The debate that cdumler and Mingo are having is exactly what I would expect.

Lock had tape that gives you hope he can develop into a legit starting QB in the NFL, and you can find tape that leads you to think there is no way he can become a starting QB in the NFL. To me the biggest thing Denver needs from Lock to be successful is to limit turnovers. If Lock can have 10 or less total turnovers next year we will be in the playoffs.

To me the biggest tell on Lock is teams were contacting Denver to see if they where open to trading Lock. That tells me that there are teams out there that believe Lock can be a starting QB. They could be wrong, many teams thought Paxton Lynch was the real deal. They were wrong.

Tim Jenkins did a break down of Lock and he thought highly of him. I don’t know if Tim knows QB play, or if he has trained anyone that was successful at the NFL. What I do know is he seems to know more then me, and it seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

Tim also said recently though that Lock’s issues are ones he doesn’t think Lock will ever fix. Looking at his game he sees a kid that doesn’t even realize the problems that he has. Hard to help someone that doesn’t see a problem.

 

[fightinredantz]

Tim also said recently though that Lock’s issues are ones he doesn’t think Lock will ever fix. Looking at his game he sees a kid that doesn’t even realize the problems that he has. Hard to help someone that doesn’t see a problem.

I had not heard that.

 

[Mingo]

A dangerous game of drafting NFL quarterbacks: history, data & insight - Mile High Report

"

2021 Draft Class​

Do you believe the hype?
It would appear that there is a great “crop” of QBs coming out of college about once every twenty years (1983, 2004, 2021?). So it is possible that the five guys expected to be taken in the first round this year: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Trey Lance to all have great careers, but it is highly unlikely.
The odds say that there will be one great NFL QB, two average NFL QBs and two busts from those five. Even the famed 1983 crop of first round QBs had two duds - Todd Blackledge (29 GS) and Tony Eason (51 GS).

​

 

[Broncosr0k]

A dangerous game of drafting NFL quarterbacks: history, data & insight - Mile High Report

"

2021 Draft Class​

Do you believe the hype?
It would appear that there is a great “crop” of QBs coming out of college about once every twenty years (1983, 2004, 2021?). So it is possible that the five guys expected to be taken in the first round this year: Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Trey Lance to all have great careers, but it is highly unlikely.
The odds say that there will be one great NFL QB, two average NFL QBs and two busts from those five. Even the famed 1983 crop of first round QBs had two duds - Todd Blackledge (29 GS) and Tony Eason (51 GS).

​

So in the 2019 draft who is the great, average, and bust? The take away is that finding a QB is hard and that only a couple each year have any type of success. But that door swings both ways. Set aside the 2021 draft for a minute. Who do you see proving the article right for 2019? Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, Gardner Minshew, Will Grier, etc....

Kyler Murray is okay, Haskins is bust, Jones is okay(?), Grier and Minshew are replaced already.

Do you see 4th QB drafted, Drew Lock, bucking the article and becoming something? If that is the case why not hope for a 5th QB becoming something?

And to let you know where I stand, I am firmly in camp do what improves the team most. If staff think Lock still has something to prove and go non-QB in the draft I will be happy. If staff decide Lance or Fields would be better I will get behind that too. I think Lock needs to make major steps in 2021 season to even be considered for 2022 and I have doubts he will get there. In that same vein, I am not sold on Lance and Fields (assuming those 2 would be the choices).

Disclaimer: I have been TERRIBLE with my picks for the broncos QB and QBs in general in the draft.

 

[Mingo]

So in the 2019 draft who is the great, average, and bust? The take away is that finding a QB is hard and that only a couple each year have any type of success. But that door swings both ways. Set aside the 2021 draft for a minute. Who do you see proving the article right for 2019? Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins, Drew Lock, Gardner Minshew, Will Grier, etc....

Kyler Murray is okay, Haskins is bust, Jones is okay(?), Grier and Minshew are replaced already.

Do you see 4th QB drafted, Drew Lock, bucking the article and becoming something? If that is the case why not hope for a 5th QB becoming something?

And to let you know where I stand, I am firmly in camp do what improves the team most. If staff think Lock still has something to prove and go non-QB in the draft I will be happy. If staff decide Lance or Fields would be better I will get behind that too. I think Lock needs to make major steps in 2021 season to even be considered for 2022 and I have doubts he will get there. In that same vein, I am not sold on Lance and Fields (assuming those 2 would be the choices).

Disclaimer: I have been TERRIBLE with my picks for the broncos QB and QBs in general in the draft.

The question is - what is a bigger crap shoot - giving Lock another year or starting over with a rookie QB after possibly giving up significant draft resources to obtain his rights?

I my mind - Lock has the advantage in that question due to these factors:

1) His teammates support him
2) He knows the offense and the receivers
3) He has shown - in spots - he can play
4) His draft cost has already been used.
5) Using Lock - allows any traded up draft resources to be sunk into the team this season.

 

[nflbronco]

The question is - what is a bigger crap shoot - giving Lock another year or starting over with a rookie QB after possibly giving up significant draft resources to obtain his rights?

I my mind - Lock has the advantage in that question due to these factors:

1) His teammates support him
2) He knows the offense and the receivers
3) He has shown - in spots - he can play
4) His draft cost has already been used.
5) Using Lock - allows any traded up draft resources to be sunk into the team this season.

Collect more draft capitol with multiple trade downs for 22 draft assets if we ride with Lock. Our rookie deal window is shutting 22 has alot of money issues to resolve. Great points Mingo

 

[Draft Crazy]

Means nothing but this guy is usually pretty good at his information.

Pro Football Network's Tony Pauline does not believe the Denver Broncos will trade up from the No. 9 pick.​

"I’ve not heard much about Denver moving up to get any of the quarterbacks at this point," Pauline said on the Draft Insiders podcast earlier this week. The analyst believes that the Broncos will likely stay put at No. 9, with quarterback a real possibility should Justin Fields or Trey Lance slip a few slots. Two other scenarios to keep in mind: A trade down from the spot, which would become all the more realistic a scenario if Alabama QB Mac Jones is still on the board. Pauline doesn't think Denver is on Jones, opening up the possibility that they could potentially trade down with a team like New England, Chicago or Washington.

 

[CEH]

Fields to 9ers at #3 picking up buzz.

DHam on the trade block.

 

[PumpFake]

Fields to 9ers at #3 picking up buzz.

DHam on the trade block.

Lock has dropped Hamilton’s name more than once. Interested to see how it all plays out.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Can't imagine we would get much for Hamilton in a trade but a late round pick would likely be possible. It is interesting to me that recently you are seeing more 3rd year players get released because of their cap hit in the 4th year of their rookie deal. The Raiders did it today with Arden Key and Maurice Hurts. Probably due to the cap going down this year. I'd like to see Hamilton get a 4th year in camp, he shows flashes but also not a guy we have been able to trust after 3 years. I am also as big of a Tyrie Cleveland fan there is, so to me I am hoping we have faith in Cleveland making more of an impact this year as he grows into his 2nd year. Cleveland fills more of a role then Hamilton does as a backup depth WR with his ability to play special teams well.

 

[Mingo]

Can't imagine we would get much for Hamilton in a trade but a late round pick would likely be possible. It is interesting to me that recently you are seeing more 3rd year players get released because of their cap hit in the 4th year of their rookie deal. The Raiders did it today with Arden Key and Maurice Hurts. Probably due to the cap going down this year. I'd like to see Hamilton get a 4th year in camp, he shows flashes but also not a guy we have been able to trust after 3 years. I am also as big of a Tyrie Cleveland fan there is, so to me I am hoping we have faith in Cleveland making more of an impact this year as he grows into his 2nd year. Cleveland fills more of a role then Hamilton does as a backup depth WR with his ability to play special teams well.

If the Broncos are going to try to get some extra Mid to late round picks - sending Hamilton to a new environment seems logical. If I was on a team that needed a cheap to acquire WR - I would love to get Hamilton. I'm with DC here - he's not going to broker much on the draft market - I even laughed that the news articles made it look like other teams were calling the Broncos to see if they would trade him and his 20-25 catches and 200 yards per year stats.

 

[CEH]

Had DHam actually been semi good maybe Hamler is not our 2nd round pick and we have a different 2nd round pick.

now he’s too expensive.

 

[CEH]

Sewell training at both RT and LT . Teams like Cincy, Det, Mia, or Denver could draft him to start at RT

 

[Draft Crazy]

Had DHam actually been semi good maybe Hamler is not our 2nd round pick and we have a different 2nd round pick.

now he’s too expensive.

You could say about a lot of players.. If so and so was good we wouldn't have had to draft so and so.

I think Hamler though fills a role that nobody else has for us for a long time... A playmaking X factor, speed WR. He and Hamilton are completely opposites. Hamilton was a 4th round pick so I don't think the expectations were for him to be great. He sorta is what he is... A 4th round pick that doesn't appear to be a starting NFL WR but good enough to hang around for a bit... Sadly, for us he only fills a role as a WR at some point you move on from a WR who isn't in your top 3 and doesn't offer special teams help. I like Hamilton, I don't love Hamilton. Was hoping he would be a little better then he is, but he has shined at time... I guess my expectations weren't off the roof with the guy. He sorta is what he is.

 

[listopencil]

You could say about a lot of players.. If so and so was good we wouldn't have had to draft so and so.

I think Hamler though fills a role that nobody else has for us for a long time... A playmaking X factor, speed WR. He and Hamilton are completely opposites. Hamilton was a 4th round pick so I don't think the expectations were for him to be great. He sorta is what he is... A 4th round pick that doesn't appear to be a starting NFL WR but good enough to hang around for a bit... Sadly, for us he only fills a role as a WR at some point you move on from a WR who isn't in your top 3 and doesn't offer special teams help. I like Hamilton, I don't love Hamilton. Was hoping he would be a little better then he is, but he has shined at time... I guess my expectations weren't off the roof with the guy. He sorta is what he is.

I hated the Hamler pick, and I wanted to use both the Hamler and the Jeudy picks to trade up for Becton. Water under the bridge now, and those two upgrades at the WR position changed the group. IMO opinion we have Sutton, Jeudy, Patrick, Hamler...and some guys that I don't really give a shit about. I'm excited about going 2WR/2TE with Sutton/Jeudy/Fant/Albert O. I'm also excited about going 3WR with Sutton and Patrick on the outside, Jeudy in the slot, Fant lined up off the opposite side of the LOS from Jeudy. And I'm intrigued with throwing Hamler in to swap him out with Fant, or Patrick, or even Gordon for some oddball plays to get Hamler in space. We could also line Fant up in a WR spot to put out a traditional 5WR look if we want to. So the FO can do whatever it wants to do with any WR after those top four. We spent draft capital to make them irrelevant on the depth chart because they just aren't that good.