2021 NE Patriots Roster

[YankeeRebel]

You may be right but there have been emotional votes to put players in based on impact. Can anyone deny his impact?

Not sure what players you reference? Does he deserve it more than Chris Carter, Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch etc?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

I’m just going to be honest with you here. If Edelman ended up on Detroit and spent his career there, you probably would have never even heard his name. He was amazing because he was the perfect guy in the perfect spot. But Calvin Johnson had some of the best raw tools ever. He was a freak. Hard to blame him for bailing on Detroit. Barry Sanders did the same. It’s where careers go to die.

Yes, your right.
Detroit is where careers die.
I believe Johnson would have flourished anywhere.
I also believe Edelman would have worked just as hard to be the perfect Lion as he did to be the perfect Pat.
Maybe he would have been noticed by the rest of the world, maybe not.

But we will never know if he was noticed by the national media because he was playing in New England, or if he was noticed by the national media and he was playing in New England.

And that I am glad of.
Foxboro Forever.

 

[nefansince75]

Yes, your right.
Detroit is where careers die.
I believe Johnson would have flourished anywhere.
I also believe Edelman would have worked just as hard to be the perfect Lion as he did to be the perfect Pat.
Maybe he would have been noticed by the rest of the world, maybe not.

But we will never know if he was noticed by the national media because he was playing in New England, or if he was noticed by the national media and he was playing in New England.

And that I am glad of.
Foxboro Forever.

I disagree... Edelman is a perfectionist who landed with two other perfectionists, Welker and Brady... Welker demonstrated how to hone the craft and Brady gave him the repetitions, partly while working on his own perfectionism and partly enabling Edelman to greatly help the team.

I think that's why I see Edelman as a HOFer, as a football player. There isn't a category for that, but there should be one.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Not sure what players you reference? Does he deserve it more than Chris Carter, Drew Pearson, Cliff Branch etc?

Does he deserve it more than ?
Or, does he deserve it as much as ?

How many SB MVP's did Cliff Branch have?
How many SB's did Drew Pearson play in? Was he the MVP?
How many post seasons did Chris Carter make a difference for his team to make the big game?

So...
a) none
b) 1 and no,
c) does it matter? No rings for Carter.

Not saying none of these guys don't belong, just that if they are the bar, JE11 clears the bar for just as many reasons as they do. Just maybe not the same reasons.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Does he deserve it more than ?
Or, does he deserve it as much as ?

How many SB MVP's did Cliff Branch have?
How many SB's did Drew Pearson play in? Was he the MVP?
How many post seasons did Chris Carter make a difference for his team to make the big game?

So...
a) none
b) 1 and no,
c) does it matter? No rings for Carter.

Not saying none of these guys don't belong, just that if they are the bar, JE11 clears the bar for just as many reasons as they do. Just maybe not the same reasons.

How many Pro Bowls did JE make? And yeah that is a factor considered by many.

A lot of players make it to the Super bowl in their career in fact two teams worth every year, based on your perspective they should all be considered for the HOF? Sorry making it to the SB is not enough.

And if he deserves it as much as and none of the aforementioned players are in I think that just shows that JE will not make to the HOF.

People can debate the all day, and this thread may be worth drumming up later, but I honestly do not see him making the hall

 

[nefansince75]

Does he deserve it more than ?
Or, does he deserve it as much as ?

How many SB MVP's did Cliff Branch have?
How many SB's did Drew Pearson play in? Was he the MVP?
How many post seasons did Chris Carter make a difference for his team to make the big game?

So...
a) none
b) 1 and no,
c) does it matter? No rings for Carter.

Not saying none of these guys don't belong, just that if they are the bar, JE11 clears the bar for just as many reasons as they do. Just maybe not the same reasons.

Let's be fair, to argue for Edelman and against others you also need to take the perspective of arguing for the others and against Edelman... To put it simply, you need a pros and cons list. But the problem really doesn't lay with the comparisons between these players... It lays with the HOF criteria not being spelled out clearly, and it should not be this and that but this or that or (this and that)...

I think Malcom Butler should be in one day on the back of one play. I think he should be in as a play maker who made one of the most impactful plays in NFL history... but that's only if valuing championships matters.

 

[BigKen]

I’m just going to be honest with you here. If Edelman ended up on Detroit and spent his career there, you probably would have never even heard his name. He was amazing because he was the perfect guy in the perfect spot. But Calvin Johnson had some of the best raw tools ever. He was a freak. Hard to blame him for bailing on Detroit. Barry Sanders did the same. It’s where careers go to die.

The big difference is that Sanders and Johnson for some assinine reason, never walked away from the Detroit shithole. Too stupid or too lazy?? I mean the lazy part because they were both icons in Detroit and could out play everyone on their team and pretty much get away with playing at their own level. Stupid, meaning that their agents really never pushed them to look outside of Detroit and test free agency.. If they had gone somewhere else, how much better could their careers have been or better yet, more rewarding to them financially and personally.

If Edelman had been in Detroit, he'd have left after his rookie contract and played anywhere but Detroit. I could see him in Denver or New Orleans easily. That's because Edelman is smart and would have gone elsewhere and been equally as good as he was in New England.

Why quit football completely and not take those skills to a better place? New England, Denver, Baltimore, Green Bay, New Orleans or Dallas. They both deserved a chance to play for jewelry. Their gold coats are tarnished.

 

[Southieinnc]

Let's be fair, to argue for Edelman and against others you also need to take the perspective of arguing for the others and against Edelman... To put it simply, you need a pros and cons list. But the problem really doesn't lay with the comparisons between these players... It lays with the HOF criteria not being spelled out clearly, and it should not be this and that but this or that or (this and that)...

I think Malcom Butler should be in one day on the back of one play. I think he should be in as a play maker who made one of the most impactful plays in NFL history... but that's only if valuing championships matters.

Wow, do I disagree with that!

 

[Yankee Traveler]

How many Pro Bowls did JE make? And yeah that is a factor considered by many.

A lot of players make it to the Super bowl in their career in fact two teams worth every year, based on your perspective they should all be considered for the HOF? Sorry making it to the SB is not enough.

And if he deserves it as much as and none of the aforementioned players are in I think that just shows that JE will not make to the HOF.

People can debate the all day, and this thread may be worth drumming up later, but I honestly do not see him making the hall

I never said a SB appearance should lead to HOF consideration. I just pointed out some of the information available on those three that you mentioned. I know Chris Carter is in the HOF. I will be back in a minute as I will go visit wiki for the others...I'm back. Pearson yes, Branch no.
And your right. Being on a Super Bowl winning team, or teams, is not enough. Just as much as winning a pro bowl nomination or nominations should not be enough.


Pro bowls should be A factor to consider.
Super Bowls should be A factor to consider.
Contributions in those Super Bowls should be A factor to consider.
Playoff stats should be A factor to consider.
Playoff contributions should be A factor to consider.
Regular season stats should be A factor to consider.
Regular season contributions should be A factor to consider.
If a defense or offense specifically schemed to limit your abilities should be A factor to consider.

Of many.


Sit ups in a driveway should NOT be a factor to consider.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Let's be fair, to argue for Edelman and against others you also need to take the perspective of arguing for the others and against Edelman... To put it simply, you need a pros and cons list. But the problem really doesn't lay with the comparisons between these players... It lays with the HOF criteria not being spelled out clearly, and it should not be this and that but this or that or (this and that)...

I think Malcom Butler should be in one day on the back of one play. I think he should be in as a play maker who made one of the most impactful plays in NFL history... but that's only if valuing championships matters.

Ohhh what a wonderful idea one play can now get a player in the HOF, meanwhile players who had many impactful plays over the course of a career may not. That is just stupid, the superbowl is still just one game.

 

[nefansince75]

Ohhh what a wonderful idea one play can now get a player in the HOF, meanwhile players who had many impactful plays over the course of a career may not. That is just stupid, the superbowl is still just one game.

Try reading an entire post. You'll find interpreting context more accurate. That play is a HOF play. I'm not saying MB is the player that others who are in the HOF are, but if it's a hall of fame, shouldn't everything "famous" about the game be there?

We are allowed to have different opinions and not be stupid. It's not like I think coal should be as valuable as diamonds because one day a lump of coal will be a diamond.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Try reading an entire post. You'll find interpreting context more accurate. That play is a HOF play. I'm not saying MB is the player that others who are in the HOF are, but if it's a hall of fame, shouldn't everything "famous" about the game be there?

We are allowed to have different opinions and not be stupid. It's not like I think coal should be as valuable as diamonds because one day a lump of coal will be a diamond.

I did it's still dumb as shit

 

[YankeeRebel]

Okay I can see how Jules and Butler can get in the HOF, when the show footage of the Patriots SB wins they will be right where they belong, on film!

 

[nefansince75]

I did it's still dumb as shit

According to your narrow-ass definition.

 

[Southieinnc]

I love the malcom Butler story.
He fell from grace but still gets a lot of respect and is still playing.
Nobody thought that the kid from Popeyes would play ball and win a Superbowl o his great play.
As much as I like the kid, Scrap has a long ways to go to make the HOF......

 

[YankeeRebel]

According to your narrow-ass definition.

Well seeing as I am the one retorting your comment it would be my definition of my post that matters.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

For some guys you just needed to watch them play, then weight the plays that matter above all others.

He had quite a few of those.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I won't try to convince anyone who doubts his qualifications.

He has three rings and he's responsible for more than a passing thought for each. His ability to crank it up a notch in the playoffs is the thing that stands out above any other WR in NFL history, even Jerry Rice. Anyone remember the AFCCG against the Chiefs where he caught three passes on consecutive third downs to keep the Patriots moving and score the tying TD. Then getting two more in OT.

As one guy said last night, Brady has seven Super Bowl Rings and without Julius Edelman, he only have four.

Would HFL history have been different without him? Yup you betcha.

Significant plays in big games and a decent body of work.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

I love the malcom Butler story.
He fell from grace but still gets a lot of respect and is still playing.
Nobody thought that the kid from Popeyes would play ball and win a Superbowl o his great play.
As much as I like the kid, Scrap has a long ways to go to make the HOF......

Get in under the "Who'd Of Thunk It" category?

 

[nefansince75]

Well seeing as I am the one retorting your comment it would be my definition of my post that matters.

Why must you always contradict yourself. Your definition in your post matters most as does your definition in my post? Why not just say "I'm always right, and I refuse to listen to anyone who suggests otherwise"...