2021 NBA regular season thread

[dtgold88]

Agree, it would make no sense now just from a value standpoint and from a rebuild standpoint bc you didn’t give enough time for it to work. Now, if they threw an offer out there to get a star for multiple young players, I’m all for trading the young players...but that is a very low possibility. They probably wouldn’t even get a top pick for either as well.

Totally agree.....No one on this team is untouchable.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Neither do I. There may be no market for them.


Again, I'm not arguing that the Cavs CAN trade either of them for anything worth trading for.



My point isn't that there was something that could be done. My point, when this all started, was that the Cavs are at an all too familiar place in the NBA. A young team with a bunch of players that show promise but haven't really developed into anything beyond that.

I don't think that contenders would be looking for Garland or Sexton because they are still too raw to be contributors to winning a title. But maybe a team like the Mavs or the Blazers or some team at that level would see them as being players that could make them true contenders(I just used them as examples and I'm not saying they would specifically be looking to grab them).

And ultimately my point is that for the Cavs to return to being a top team, they are going to need to hit a home run in the draft. Neither Sexton or Garland are likely to be that level of player. So if the Cavs could get some decent picks back for either of them, they should consider it.

And just to get you to put your homer hammer down, I would say the same is true for at least half the league.

And, no, I don't think the Cavs, or any other team really, would seriously consider doing this.

I think Sexton has "developed beyond that". i mean 50% from the field, 40% from 3 and 25 points a game is nothing to sneeze at. I think its fair to say he likely has an all star game or 3 in his future with what he is doing - and the fact he turned 22 a week ago

Garland is in his 2nd year- the first year a pandemic shortened season--- coming off a college campaign where he played 4 games.

Okoro has played 20 games.

uhhhhh...not sure what else you would expect at this point.

and i totally ag ree that Cleveland might have a 2nd or 3rd player that can be very good on a playoff series winning team or two--- but they still need that GUY. Is it impossible that Sexton is that guy? No. I think its unlikely Garland is that guy. I think Okoro has a chance but of course youd bet against it.

its why i think they need to trade Drummond ASAP and lose lose lose and get one more shot at the lotto in this stacked draft coming up.

i have been saying all year the Cavs need one more big time talent- and then to see if Garland, Okoro, Sexton, Allen and Draft Pick X can develop.

But- i certainly wouldnt count out Sexton for sure not developing into a Damian Lillard lite- or at worse a DeAron Fox.

 

[dtgold88]

Well good luck! Hope that works out for you guys. Who knows? Maybe Sexton will become an All-NBA player this year!

Everything is just homer trash talking with you.

Is it possible you'd ever admit your logic is off base? what homer trash? It's factual Philly went 5 years without making the playoffs in their last rebuild and when they made the playoffs they regressed a little. In the Cavs last rebuild they made the playoffs and Finals in year 5 and won it all in year 6. These are facts.

More facts are they are now in year 3 post Lebron and have 2 seasons after this one to equal what philly did in their rebuild.

why don't you tell me again how a rookie is really on a 5 year deal because you think guys sign 1 year deals as RFAs? Is this one of those deals where you can repeat it into existence if you say it enough or is it the Costanaza philosophy of "it's not a lie if you believe it"?

 

[WiggyRuss]

This is what you love to do. I never said anything about RFA. You brought that up. Thunder said that teams have control of players for 4 years after their rookie deal. That isn't true. A player becomes an RFA only if they have fewer than 3 seasons in the league or they served 4 years of a rookie scale contract and it only applies to that one year. So teams only have "control" of a player for the 1st 5 years of their career.

he said they "practically" do- which is true. The vast majority of elite young players DO sign a long term extension their RFA year.

technically you are right---control for 5 years--- but practically how it has played out is that they have control for a period of 7-8 years- depending on how long the 2nd contract is off the RFA.

 

[dtgold88]

I think Sexton has "developed beyond that". i mean 50% from the field, 40% from 3 and 25 points a game is nothing to sneeze at. I think its fair to say he likely has an all star game or 3 in his future with what he is doing - and the fact he turned 22 a week ago

Garland is in his 2nd year- the first year a pandemic shortened season--- coming off a college campaign where he played 4 games.

Okoro has played 20 games.

uhhhhh...not sure what else you would expect at this point.

and i totally ag ree that Cleveland might have a 2nd or 3rd player that can be very good on a playoff series winning team or two--- but they still need that GUY. Is it impossible that Sexton is that guy? No. I think its unlikely Garland is that guy. I think Okoro has a chance but of course youd bet against it.

its why i think they need to trade Drummond ASAP and lose lose lose and get one more shot at the lotto in this stacked draft coming up.

i have been saying all year the Cavs need one more big time talent- and then to see if Garland, Okoro, Sexton, Allen and Draft Pick X can develop.

But- i certainly wouldnt count out Sexton for sure not developing into a Damian Lillard lite- or at worse a DeAron Fox.

If the hype around this draft is legit I think they could win a lot of games with Sexton, Garland, Okoro, Allen, Draft Pick X (as pick1-2) along with Nance, Love, Osman and maybe Windler.

sucks they had to give up on Porter. well, maybe not had to but did.

 

[dtgold88]

he said they "practically" do- which is true. The vast majority of elite young players DO sign a long term extension their RFA year.

technically you are right---control for 5 years--- but practically how it has played out is that they have control for a period of 7-8 years- depending on how long the 2nd contract is off the RFA.

Correct...and I cannot think of a guy who signed a 1 year deal coming off his rookie deal as a first rounder under this CBA. Maybe there is one, I just cannot name him.

 

[flyerhawk]

No disagreement with this. Only disagreements I had was the idea they'd bolt because we were not good enough early or that Garland and Sexton cannot be part of a contending team.

I'm certainly not predicting what either will or won't do. But if they do turn into all star level players then they are going to want to be on winning teams most likely. We have a pretty good history of that happening.

it's true if they remain the best players they wont ever be a title contender, but agreed the cavs need some lottery luck to be a title contender again. A top 1-2 pick this year would do it (but it's not likely) if experts are right about the next draft.

They had luck to get Lebron and Kyrie and win a title. Even though I think they did well getting sexton/Garland, luck was not exactly on their side in those lotteries. Well, I guess they picked where they should have with Sexton, was just hoping could be higher before Dimwiddie went on a tear last few weeks of that season. Had a bottom 2 record so needed to get Morant or Zion to have a chance to really make a huge jump.

Getting Sexton in the Kyrie trade was pretty good business for the Cavs.

 

[dtgold88]

I'm certainly not predicting what either will or won't do. But if they do turn into all star level players then they are going to want to be on winning teams most likely. We have a pretty good history of that happening.



Getting Sexton in the Kyrie trade was pretty good business for the Cavs.

and when they are UFAs we could lose them under those circumstances. RFAs? Not unless Cavs choose to lose them.

agree the Sexton pick worked out......would have been nice to have picked higher as was expected when they made the deal and gotten Doncic (though who knows if they'd have taken him).

 

[WiggyRuss]

If the hype around this draft is legit I think they could win a lot of games with Sexton, Garland, Okoro, Allen, Draft Pick X (as pick1-2) along with Nance, Love, Osman and maybe Windler.

sucks they had to give up on Porter. well, maybe not had to but did.

totally agree- they need to trade drummond ASAP to lose a few more games.

i mean realistically i think the Heat and Raptors are better than the Cavs right now. Those 2 teams should pass them. The Knicks have owned us and dont appear to be going away- they should also finish above the Cavs.

Orlando i think is right about our level- though if we trade Drummond i think Orlando might pass us as well. Charlotte is right on the level or Orlando---- though i think Charlotte is more "win now" and will likely pass us

the teams i see the Cavs finishing ahead of in the East?

Chicago, Detroit, Washington.

possiblee they finish ahead of Charlotte and Orlando---- but it will be close. I hope they finish behind Charlotte and Orlando.

in the West......i think they finish with a better record than Minne obviously

after that- its anyonees guess- maybe OKC, maybe the Kings, maybe the Pelicans.

I expect the Cavs lotto odds to be anywhere from 5th to 10th.

 

[bksballer89]

 

[bksballer89]

 

[tlance]

No disagreement....but "first chance they get" is not often as a RFA. Unless their team CHOOSES not to keep them.

Yes.

But again, to @flyerhawk point, it totally depends on how good the player is and how close the team is to winning.

Sexton has already shown enough that barring injury he is going to get a max extension when his rookie contract ends.

Will Garland be on that level? Or will he be a Brogdon type that you want to keep, but don’t want to pay $20 million?

It is a pretty small percentage of RFAs that provide no broader decisions for the team. And even then, many more of those RFA Max guys end up being viewed as bad contracts a few years later.

 

[tlance]

RFA's that are offered sizeable extensions dont.

practically everyone stays through their RFA contract. You pretty much have someone for the first 6-8 years unless you dont want them.

the limiting criteria that you point out- both a small market team and not a contender really shrinks the pool though. It shrinks it so much that i cant even think of one guy who was on a small market team that wasnt a contender who actually left instead of resigning through his RFA.

Honestly cant think of one example.

people thought Fox might go look for greener pastures but he re-signed. Booker resigned obviously. Gordon resigned with the Magic. Beal resigned with the Wiz. Siakam resigned with the Raptors. Towns resigne with the Twolves.

This doesnt even count guys like Lillard, Brown, Embiid, Simmons, Kyrie, Thompson, Curry, Durant, RW, Harden, George, Mitchell, Gobert, etc. etc. etc.


care to give an a few examples of this "recent history" you suggest?

I am talking about after year 8. You have 5 seasons to make Sexton want to remain a Cav. Sounds like a long time, but it really isn’t because every time you have to pay an RFA, building a roster under the tax line becomes harder.

 

[thunderc]

Thunder are obviously going to be dealing with all of this same stuff. SGA will get a big deal but so far he is it I think. With all the draft picks coming though it will be interesting.

 

[msgkings322]

Charles could carry a team though

Not what I was talking about

 

[msgkings322]

View attachment 264000

And that's in the regular season with many bad teams to play. In the playoffs they won't score as much and may give up even more points because opposing offenses and defenses will be better every night.

Basically the Nets are a team version of James Harden: great regular season offense, bad defense, and won't look as good in the playoffs

 

[dtgold88]

I am talking about after year 8. You have 5 seasons to make Sexton want to remain a Cav. Sounds like a long time, but it really isn’t because every time you have to pay an RFA, building a roster under the tax line becomes harder.

Pretty sure all but maybe 1-2 in this discussion realize they could lose him after his first extension. But as an RFA? Only if they want to.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Not what I was talking about

My point is Chuck earned a little more leverage

 

[msgkings322]

My point is Chuck earned a little more leverage

Rings vs stats

 

[thunderc]

Rings vs stats

Lot of people don’t get rings. It’s not all about stats either, it’s about how good or great you are. Barkley is a top 50 all time player.