2021 NBA regular season thread

[flyerhawk]

But they sure saw a lot of losing. as did Giannis.

starting to think many here don't understand how RFA works. The only way sexton and/or garland (or any young player) leaves after his rookie deal is if his own team chooses to let him go.

This isn't debatable.

Starting to think you don't understand what "saw a lot of losing" actually means.

You realize that Ben Simmons wasn't watching the Sixers when they were winning 10 games, right?

We all understand how RFA works. We also understand that RFA is one year. You should ask the Bucks about whether RFA prevents players from leaving.

And you keep missing the point here. Having a bunch of young players on a roster all developing at the same time rarely works the way you want.

 

[dtgold88]

WTF are you talking about? What was all this losing that they saw?

were they not made aware what their team was doing when they sat? Not on the bench? No newspapers or internet?

Never mind at some point can you explain how Sexton/Garland can walk unless the Cavs choose to let them? Rookies drafted often high see a good deal of losing their first 2-3 seasons. Unless that team wants them out they don't leave after their rookie deals are over.

Not really debatable.

 

[dtgold88]

How is one season of losing a lot in Simmons case?

was he not told what the team was doing when he was out?

 

[flyerhawk]

No way to know? sure...it could have happened. But the guy stayed relatively healthy when lebron was here other than the freak accident by Olynyk. Missing some games was certainly not something that could not be expected, but not the amount he has missed.

He played 77, 59, and 60 games with Lebron. Oft injured players don't somehow because ironmen when they hit 30.

As Tlance said, you are not rational when the topic is the Cavs.

 

[bksballer89]

were they not made aware what their team was doing when they sat? Not on the bench? No newspapers or internet?

Embiid had a legit injury. As for Simmons, they took precaution. If Simmons played that year then they're close to a .500 team

 

[bksballer89]

was he not told what the team was doing when he was out?

Who told you that? Now you're just making shit up lol

 

[bksballer89]

Go find me something where it said Simmons sat out because Philly was trying to tank....good luck

 

[dtgold88]

Starting to think you don't understand what "saw a lot of losing" actually means.

You realize that Ben Simmons wasn't watching the Sixers when they were winning 10 games, right?

We all understand how RFA works. We also understand that RFA is one year. You should ask the Bucks about whether RFA prevents players from leaving.

And you keep missing the point here. Having a bunch of young players on a roster all developing at the same time rarely works the way you want.

I don't think you do understand. sure RFA is one year IF the player signs a 1-year deal. What rookies signed 1-year deals in their only year as a RFA? Most sign 3-4 year deals. Can you name any who signed 1-year deals and then became UFAs?

 

[dtgold88]

Who told you that? Now you're just making shit up lol

Making what up? Embiid and simmons were on teams that lost a lot. Did they not know the team was losing because they were out?

never mind all this is to mask the absurdity (yes, that applies) that garland or sexton will bolt as RFAs unless the cavs want them gone.

 

[dtgold88]

Go find me something where it said Simmons sat out because Philly was trying to tank....good luck

Go find me something where I made such a claim.

Now go find me something where a team lost their own player after his rookie deal who they wanted to keep under the current CBA.

 

[dtgold88]

Starting to think you don't understand what "saw a lot of losing" actually means.

You realize that Ben Simmons wasn't watching the Sixers when they were winning 10 games, right?

We all understand how RFA works. We also understand that RFA is one year. You should ask the Bucks about whether RFA prevents players from leaving.

And you keep missing the point here. Having a bunch of young players on a roster all developing at the same time rarely works the way you want.

My point is it's absurd for you to think Garland or sexton leave after their rookie deals expire unless the cavs want them to (as you alluded they might). No more, no less.

I never said the Cavs will ever be an elite team with them.

 

[flyerhawk]

were they not made aware what their team was doing when they sat? Not on the bench? No newspapers or internet?

Simmons got hurt his rookie season and they decided to red shirt him rather than put him in late in the season. This "all the losing" you are referring to? Embiid was unable to play his first 2 seasons. They didn't choose to sit him. So I guess you could say that he watched some losing in civilian clothes for 2 years. Why would he be upset, in any way, about that losing?

Never mind at some point can you explain how Sexton/Garland can walk unless the Cavs choose to let them? Rookies drafted often high see a good deal of losing their first 2-3 seasons. Unless that team wants them out they don't leave after their rookie deals are over.

Not really debatable.

I'm starting to get the sense that you are intentionally missing the point.

Thunder was saying that teams have effective control of players for 4 years after their rookie contract. That is simply not true. They have 1 year of having RFA rights on the player. And that is when it begins to be decision time. If someone comes in and offers Sexton near max open market value, would the Cavs match?

The point is that waiting on young teams to gel into really good teams rarely actually happens.

 

[flyerhawk]

Go find me something where I made such a claim.

Now go find me something where a team lost their own player after his rookie deal who they wanted to keep under the current CBA.

Malcolm Brogdon

 

[WiggyRuss]

this oral history of the year after LeBron left the first time is just stupendous on the TheAthletic

a LOT of Christian Eyenga hate, lol...........

Jamison: We had some young guys that didn’t take the games as seriously as I did or take it as seriously as you need to be successful. Christian (Eyenga) and Samardo (Samuels) and those guys.

Hollins: It was tough for these young guys in the league. They get minutes and they don’t understand the team is trying to lose. Christian thought that he was this great basketball player and he was getting featured. He didn’t realize, “Dude, you’re shooting 5 for 20 and they’re getting ready to move on from you.” He didn’t get it.

Jamison: We’d get on the plane and the rookies gotta get the snacks. Christian said, “I ain’t getting you no snacks.”

Hollins: He was so arrogant.

Christian Eyenga, Baron Davis and Mo Williams initially agreed to participate in this oral history. Eyenga and representatives for both Davis and Williams did not respond to multiple follow-up requests.

Jent: I got so mad at Christian. It’s the first time we played in Boston and I used to play three-on-three before the games with some of the guys. Christian was being real lackadaisical. I’m telling him, “These guys are going to punk you. They’re going to be real physical with you.” He was just so casual that day. Nothing mattered.

Gibson: He understood you when it was something he liked, but he no longer spoke English when it was something he didn’t want to hear or something he didn’t want to do. He was very selective with what he wanted to understand. He just wanted to run and dunk. If it was anything technical, like defense, he’d make this “Eh?” sound and raise up his eyebrows.

Jent: Until he played Kobe (Bryant). Then he played his butt off because that was his idol.

Hollins: The humbling moment was when Antawn popcorned Christian’s car.

Jamison: He just got a car and he loved this car. I don’t remember what kind of car. It wasn’t a Range Rover. It might’ve been an Escalade. It was a full SUV. I remember talking to Cobra (Cavs equipment manager Mark Cashman): “We got to do something to Christian. We’ve got to figure something out.” Cobra was as happy to do it as I was. I bought all the popcorn possible and filled the car up completely. I hired the ball boys to do it.

Hollins: Christian was talented. You could see why he got drafted. He could jump, he could shoot, he was athletic. You could see the tools. He just needed to be locked in the gym and get to work.

Jamison: He was like a puppy dog. “Not my car, ‘Twan. Not my car.” Two weeks later, he turned on the car and popcorn was still flying through the vents. The seats still had butter on them. He said, “I can’t get the butter out!” Now looking back on it, it was kind of mean. I just needed something to entertain me other than basketball. I paid for it to get it cleaned. He was a rookie on a rookie deal. I didn’t realize the magnitude of the popcorn messing up the leather. But I’ll tell you one thing, after that, he started to take things more seriously.

Gibson: Christian was definitely a wild card.

Jamison: He got us snacks for the next month.

 

[dtgold88]

Simmons got hurt his rookie season and they decided to red shirt him rather than put him in late in the season. This "all the losing" you are referring to? Embiid was unable to play his first 2 seasons. They didn't choose to sit him. So I guess you could say that he watched some losing in civilian clothes for 2 years. Why would he be upset, in any way, about that losing?



I'm starting to get the sense that you are intentionally missing the point.

Thunder was saying that teams have effective control of players for 4 years after their rookie contract. That is simply not true. They have 1 year of having RFA rights on the player. And that is when it begins to be decision time. If someone comes in and offers Sexton near max open market value, would the Cavs match?

The point is that waiting on young teams to gel into really good teams rarely actually happens.

what player signed a 1 year deal after his rookie deal ended? They generally sign at least 3-4 year deals and unless his drafting team wants to lose him they wont.

That is my point.

 

[dtgold88]

Malcolm Brogdon

If they wanted to keep him they'd have paid him. They CHOSE not to. Does Dan Gilbert strike you as an owner who is not going to pay a guy he wants to keep? whatever you think about him, cheap does not come to mind in describing him.

 

[flyerhawk]

My point is it's absurd for you to think Garland or sexton leave after their rookie deals expire unless the cavs want them to (as you alluded they might). No more, no less.

I never said the Cavs will ever be an elite team with them.

You are completely twisting this point.

I said that once their rookie deals expire, the Cavs control of those players becomes weaker. If they were to become elite players it would be easier because A) they can offer more than other teams and B) they would match whatever contracts they were offered.

But if they aren't elite players it becomes murkier. How much would the Cavs be willing to pay? Would another team be willing to pay more?

This doesn't apply just to the Cavs. It applies to every team. Most teams in the NBA are stuck in a mediocrity loop of constantly recycling good but not great players over and over again. The only way out is to get more bites at the apple or to lure elite players via FA. If free agency isn't a possible option, that means figuring out ways to get the most chances at drafting elite players.

So are the Cavs better off building with Sexton and Garland or are they better dealing those guys for more draft picks and new bites at the apple? I honestly don't know the answer to that but if I had to guess, dealing those guys now would probably give them a better chance at becoming a really good team again.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Cavs need to move some of those young players so they can start winning games now. The problem with having all young guys is that you can never win with all young guys and then those guys get frustrated and leave when their contracts free up.

Not sure what market is for Garland or Sexton but hard to imagine the Cavs ever contending for a title with both of those guys on the roster.

lol....what?

they need to move Drummond so they lose more games.

Sexton and Garland turned 22 and 21 this month. Okoro turned 20 this month. Allen is 22. Windler and Nance still have plenty left

they need to lose their ass of this season- get one more big time talent--- and then start putting it together.

Garland played 4 games in college-and then came into the league as a 20 year old kid in a season that ended prematurely from the pandemic. This year- before he got hurt- he was looking great.

its a young team that needs time to develop and to gather some more assets. They are DEFINITELY not past acquisition mode and ready to make big moves and be ready to compete.

I would say this summer that process starts happening after Drummond is gone and they have a chance to do some more evaluation.

 

[flyerhawk]

If they wanted to keep him they'd have paid him. They CHOSE not to. Does Dan Gilbert strike you as an owner who is not going to pay a guy he wants to keep? whatever you think about him, cheap does not come to mind in describing him.

It isn't just about whether the ownership is being cheap or not. Cap space is an asset. You only get so much of it. The Bucks wanted to keep Brogdon but his injury history kept them away from matching the offer sheet. Which is exactly my point.

 

[flyerhawk]

what player signed a 1 year deal after his rookie deal ended? They generally sign at least 3-4 year deals and unless his drafting team wants to lose him they wont.

That is my point.

Wait. Now we need to limit the field to people who got 1 year deals? When did this happen?