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2021 NBA Offseason

dtgold88

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100% agree.

Definitely valuable players, also most likely to be overpaid.

Just how it goes.

Maybe he takes another step and surpasses that tier of player, but I would not bet on it.

We shall see which side of that bet the Cavs fall on.
Yep....no idea what they'll do but I'd be surprised if they didn't make some kind of big deal either before season or by deadline.

If they think they can get better by dealing sexton, then have at it.
 

dtgold88

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Good point. I personally think that analysis on their end would be flawed. But who is to say that hoping doesn’t lead to a bad assessment. Maybe a CJ PG or CJ Holiday pairing would help get them over the hump into a true contender. But let’s also grant the idea that it would be rare for a team to shed their best player and then become a contender. The only circumstance I can think of was when OKC bailed on Westbrook. I think CP3 made them a better basketball team and that was without PG13 in their lineup. But they didn’t really rise to a “contender”. I’m still projecting that if Lillard forces out that the Blazers will be looking for a full reset and they’ll prioritize young pieces over 30 year old players. But again…just an opinion.
Your opinion is certainly valid and possible (maybe even likely).

I disagree with the notion you cannot win with smaller guards. Is it ideal? Nope. But with better guys around their guards or Nurkic staying healthy maybe Portland gets further. Harder for them, I'm sure, as even if they opened up cap room it's not like many elite FAs want to go to Portland.
 

fightinfunbags

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Your opinion is certainly valid and possible (maybe even likely).

I disagree with the notion you cannot win with smaller guards. Is it ideal? Nope. But with better guys around their guards or Nurkic staying healthy maybe Portland gets further. Harder for them, I'm sure, as even if they opened up cap room it's not like many elite FAs want to go to Portland.
I wasn’t really focused on size. You can be “short” and still find a way to impact the game defensively. Allen Iverson was my guy. Not a great on the ball defender. Horrible match up vs big guards posting him. But he was always top of the league (top 5) in steals. He found a way to impact the game at that end. I think Holiday and PG both are defensive upgrades to Dame. CJ is no prize on defense either. That’s why CJ/Dame is a bad pairing. They play great at one end off each other but it’s a mess at the other end. Maybe your two guys help that. Or maybe it’s not enough. I’m not a Nurkic guy. He’s a quality starter but thinking he can be a piece of a Big 3 type of deal seems out there to me. And if this team is going to become a contender, he has to be that guy. I just don’t see it. I think Portland is better off going young if Dame forces his way out.
 

fightinfunbags

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Here’s another hot take on the Lillard front:
Any chance of the Nets brass, KD and Harden come to a conclusion that Kyrie is a space cadet and fuck that guy and they decide to center a deal for Dame around shipping Kyrie? If I’m the Nets I’m exploring that.
 

thunderc

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Here’s another hot take on the Lillard front:
Any chance of the Nets brass, KD and Harden come to a conclusion that Kyrie is a space cadet and fuck that guy and they decide to center a deal for Dame around shipping Kyrie? If I’m the Nets I’m exploring that.
You are assuming someone would be willing to give up a superstar for a “space cadet”. Options are limited because Irving has already showed he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, if he doesn’t feel like playing he doesn’t play. I don’t see that as a very desireable quality.
 

dtgold88

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You are assuming someone would be willing to give up a superstar for a “space cadet”. Options are limited because Irving has already showed he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, if he doesn’t feel like playing he doesn’t play. I don’t see that as a very desireable quality.
Agree.....and hard to imagine being shipped from where he said he wanted to play to Portland helps matters.
 

trojanfan12

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Here’s another hot take on the Lillard front:
Any chance of the Nets brass, KD and Harden come to a conclusion that Kyrie is a space cadet and fuck that guy and they decide to center a deal for Dame around shipping Kyrie? If I’m the Nets I’m exploring that.

Kyrie would just end up joining the rioters in Portland instead of the Blazers.
 

thunderc

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Kyrie would just end up joining the rioters in Portland instead of the Blazers.
Funny, but true. He just couldn’t find time to play.
 

fightinfunbags

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You are assuming someone would be willing to give up a superstar for a “space cadet”. Options are limited because Irving has already showed he doesn’t care what anyone thinks, if he doesn’t feel like playing he doesn’t play. I don’t see that as a very desireable quality.
If we assess this in a vacuum they don’t trade their best player at all. You’re almost always guaranteed to lose a deal like that. Maybe they feel like Kyrie is the best they can bring back in a Dame deal.
 

trojanfan12

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If we assess this in a vacuum they don’t trade their best player at all. You’re almost always guaranteed to lose a deal like that. Maybe they feel like Kyrie is the best they can bring back in a Dame deal.

Yeah, and while Kyrie has his issues, when he's just playing basketball, he's an amazing player. As long as he is able to play at the level he does, there will be teams willing to take a chance that they can "get through to him".

When trading away a superstar, teams are often in the position of "trading a dollar for 4 quarters". At least with Kyrie, the Blazers might be able to say they got a 50 cent piece and 2 quarters. lol
 

tlance

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Yeah, and while Kyrie has his issues, when he's just playing basketball, he's an amazing player. As long as he is able to play at the level he does, there will be teams willing to take a chance that they can "get through to him".

When trading away a superstar, teams are often in the position of "trading a dollar for 4 quarters". At least with Kyrie, the Blazers might be able to say they got a 50 cent piece and 2 quarters. lol

That would be an awful trade for Portland. And honestly don’t think it helps the Nets either.

Dave is obviously better, but he and Kyrie have very similar skill sets. Portland’s biggest issue is that CJ and Dame already have the same skill set.

If Portland trades Dame, they need to do 1 of the following:

1) deal him for another star + who is entirely different from Dame.

2) deal him for young assets/picks that will help them start over.

Same idea with Brooklyn. Don’t trade Kyrie another ball dominant guard, deal him for somebody like Simmons who compliments what they already have a lot better.
 

trojanfan12

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That would be an awful trade for Portland. And honestly don’t think it helps the Nets either.

Dave is obviously better, but he and Kyrie have very similar skill sets. Portland’s biggest issue is that CJ and Dame already have the same skill set.

If Portland trades Dame, they need to do 1 of the following:

1) deal him for another star + who is entirely different from Dame.

2) deal him for young assets/picks that will help them start over.

Same idea with Brooklyn. Don’t trade Kyrie another ball dominant guard, deal him for somebody like Simmons who compliments what they already have a lot better.

I agree. I was just speaking specifically to the proposed trade and the talent involved.
 

dtgold88

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Nah it is crazy

Sexton is in his 4th year lol. He has plenty of value. Love has value to a team like Philly who is desperate to shake things up. I'd actually expect Love to have a good year so he can be dealt as an expiring worst to worst
Just saw a rumor with the Heat that doesn't make a lot of sense for the Cavs I don't think. Sexton and Love for Herro, Iguodala, Achiuwa. Unless latter a lot better than I thought he was.
 

dtgold88

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4th year is when rookie value takes a significant hit unless they are no brainer max players.

Because RFAs who aren’t max players tend to get overpaid significantly.

A contender usually wouldn’t mind as much as a cellar dweller.
Think you are taking this a bit too far. are you suggesting teams wouldn't want to have really good players who just aren't elite? Hell, Kyrie was considered such a player after his year 3 season. Many of the same things being said about Sexton were said about him. I doubt the Cavs at that time regretted the notion they were eventually going to have t pay him max or near max to keep him.
 

dtgold88

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A contender with cap space to over pay an RFA? How many of those are there? It end up being a sign and trade most likely anyway. You could argue the Nets were able to "trade" for KD with Russels RFA
The notion you could not get much in return for a 22-year-old with an obscene work ethic who gets better and better every season is baffling.

Should they deal him? Not sure...IMO, only if #3 and garland are better and I'm not sure at this point that will be the case. I hope they are as would mean they are both exceptional talents.
 

dtgold88

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The major question about Love is what are you getting? Has he diminished in talent and ability or was he just disengaged and going through the motions playing for a rotten team? It’s a big risk at 30 million plus for the next two seasons.
An excellent question and even after watching him I don't know what the answer is. Might be a little of both. Might still be a good player, but not $30 mil good.
 

dtgold88

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Right.

Of course Sexton has value. Just not nearly as much as he would if he had 2 years on his rookie deal.

And Love has negative value still.

So the net of packaging those 2 contracts is probably going to get an underwhelming return for Cleveland.
which is why if I'm the cavs and want to deal Sexton I would not insist Love be attached.
 

fightinfunbags

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Just saw a rumor with the Heat that doesn't make a lot of sense for the Cavs I don't think. Sexton and Love for Herro, Iguodala, Achiuwa. Unless latter a lot better than I thought he was.
Wow. Iggy is old and Herro is coming off a meh Sophomore season. I don’t like Achiuwa much at all. Not sure why this would interest the Cavs.
 

Stakesarehigh

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The notion you could not get much in return for a 22-year-old with an obscene work ethic who gets better and better every season is baffling.

Should they deal him? Not sure...IMO, only if #3 and garland are better and I'm not sure at this point that will be the case. I hope they are as would mean they are both exceptional talents.

I'm on the same page as you on this one.
 
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