2021 NBA Offseason

[tlance]

Not sure what is most comical....you think Cleveland is shopping him just to get rid of him or that they could get nothing for a 22-year old 24 ppg scorer who still has a modest deal.

Never mind all you are going by are baseless rumors. I mean, sure, he's not an untouchable so if someone calls they'll listen and they could ask others what they'd offer for him.

It is trade value. You have already proven you have no concept of it.

I didn’t say they were shopping him to get rid of him. They are shopping him because they are wary of paying him next summer with a roster that isn’t anywhere close to winning.

Sexton definitely has strong positive trade value. But not nearly as strong as it was because he is 1 year away from RFA.

Love has negative trade value.

Does Sexton have more positive value than Love has negative?

Yes, probably. But not by as much as you want him to.

And stop with your “baseless rumors” BS. Even Wiggy was talking about trading Sexton. Of course they are listening to offers.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

And honestly that isn’t crazy.

Sexton is a good young player. But he is going to be an RFA after next season.

Do you really want to pay him $30 million a year? A contender would for a 3rd option.

But there is a reason Cleveland is shopping him. They may not want to sign that deal. His RFA status negatively impacts his trade value too. Because the acquiring team is going to have to pay him also.

End result is probably that Sexton + Love doesn’t net a whole lot in terms of assets.

Nah it is crazy

Sexton is in his 4th year lol. He has plenty of value. Love has value to a team like Philly who is desperate to shake things up. I'd actually expect Love to have a good year so he can be dealt as an expiring worst to worst

 

[tlance]

Nah it is crazy

Sexton is in his 4th year lol. He has plenty of value. Love has value to a team like Philly who is desperate to shake things up. I'd actually expect Love to have a good year so he can be dealt as an expiring worst to worst

4th year is when rookie value takes a significant hit unless they are no brainer max players.

Because RFAs who aren’t max players tend to get overpaid significantly.

A contender usually wouldn’t mind as much as a cellar dweller.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

4th year is when rookie value takes a significant hit unless they are no brainer max players.

Because RFAs who aren’t max players tend to get overpaid significantly.

A contender usually wouldn’t mind as much as a cellar dweller.

A contender with cap space to over pay an RFA? How many of those are there? It end up being a sign and trade most likely anyway. You could argue the Nets were able to "trade" for KD with Russels RFA

 

[shopson67]

Well of course everyone is free to decide in their own minds how big every title is. Not all titles are created equal. For instance if Phoenix were to win would people say they got lucky like they did the Warriors? You don’t ever hear anyone saying the Bulls got lucky for instance, that’s what I mean.

Repeating takes away any threat of luck talk IMO.

Phoenix so far has made it past 3 teams with injuries to all-star level talent. Their only issue was with CP3 (that weird shoulder thing for a few games vs the Lakers and 2 games for protocol vs the Clips). Still an issue, but not as severe as their opponents. Of course, they earned home court and that couldn't hurt. However, if Phoenix makes this an annual thing (deep runs), that luck talk fades. That could be tough though, as CP3 only has so much more left in the tank. Looks good so far though.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, I don't see the point of "devaluing" a title. Every season, no matter who wins, there's always something that can be pointed at as "lucky". Or something that can be pointed to that if it did (or didn't) happen, that team doesn't win.

Might be injuries to opponents, lack of injuries to the team that won, a lucky shot that did (or didn't) go in. Heck, even the Warriors getting KD can be seen as luck that Steph struggled with injuries early in his career. That delayed his first huge contract. As unlucky as it seemed at the time, without those injury struggles, they don't have the cap space for KD.

Right, I'm first to say the Warriors got very lucky in how that team came together. The KD stuff you mention (also the cap went way up that year just in time), how about the infamous Minnesota draft fuckery passing on Steph twice...

And of course they had some injury luck in 2015 vs the Cavs. But 2017...there was zero luck in those playoffs. That was a top 5 all time team and they were gonna motorboat the league and that's just what they did (16-1).

 

[tlance]

A contender with cap space to over pay an RFA? How many of those are there? It end up being a sign and trade most likely anyway. You could argue the Nets were able to "trade" for KD with Russels RFA

Contenders usually are willing to go into the luxury tax.

A bad team nowhere close to winning is better off trading a good, not great player than overpaying them.

And if a team like Philly or Miami were to acquire Sexton this summer, they have his bird rights and can go over the cap to keep him.

They would not be able to sign him in free agency.

So it makes sense for those teams. But at the same time, it limits the field of interested parties, therefor also lowering trade value for players like that.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Contenders usually are willing to go into the luxury tax.

A bad team nowhere close to winning is better off trading a good, not great player than overpaying them.

And if a team like Philly or Miami were to acquire Sexton this summer, they have his bird rights and can go over the cap to keep him.

They would not be able to sign him in free agency.

So it makes sense for those teams. But at the same time, it limits the field of interested parties, therefor also lowering trade value for players like that.

I agree with everything you just said. Which is an argument for why a trade for him now gives him value. And as to Love the Olympics could be a nice showcase for his trade value

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Love has a lot less wear and tear than he would've had had he had a few more years with Lebron for sure.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Love has a lot less wear and tear than he would've had had he had a few more years with Lebron for sure.

The major question about Love is what are you getting? Has he diminished in talent and ability or was he just disengaged and going through the motions playing for a rotten team? It’s a big risk at 30 million plus for the next two seasons.

 

[trojanfan12]

The major question about Love is what are you getting? Has he diminished in talent and ability or was he just disengaged and going through the motions playing for a rotten team? It’s a big risk at 30 million plus for the next two seasons.

I think several teams will be monitoring his performance in the Olympics. If he's healthy, he could offer quite a bit to a contender. His best skills are shooting, passing and rebounding. Those tend to age well. Plus, he's not a guy who relies on athleticism.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The major question about Love is what are you getting? Has he diminished in talent and ability or was he just disengaged and going through the motions playing for a rotten team? It’s a big risk at 30 million plus for the next two seasons.

Don't disagree on the risk. The upside to Love with Philly is he can play more away from the basket at least to pair with Embiid.

 

[tlance]

I agree with everything you just said. Which is an argument for why a trade for him now gives him value. And as to Love the Olympics could be a nice showcase for his trade value

Right.

Of course Sexton has value. Just not nearly as much as he would if he had 2 years on his rookie deal.

And Love has negative value still.

So the net of packaging those 2 contracts is probably going to get an underwhelming return for Cleveland.

 

[tlance]

I think several teams will be monitoring his performance in the Olympics. If he's healthy, he could offer quite a bit to a contender. His best skills are shooting, passing and rebounding. Those tend to age well. Plus, he's not a guy who relies on athleticism.

I disagree.

I don’t think his skill set ages well.

Offensively, sure.

But he was already a poor defender. At some point, the defense is so bad that the offensive value is completely canceled out.

Love may be close to that point. It tends to happen pretty quick for guys who aren’t big enough to be a full time center.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree.

I don’t think his skill set ages well.

Offensively, sure.

But he was already a poor defender. At some point, the defense is so bad that the offensive value is completely canceled out.

Love may be close to that point. It tends to happen pretty quick for guys who aren’t big enough to be a full time center.

There are plenty of players who are almost exclusively offense and they seem to manage to help their teams.

A lot would depend on the team he went to and how good they are defensively. A good defensive team can "hide" him to lessen his negative impact.

Plus, we've seen so little of him over the past few years, it's hard to know just how much he has declined. He may have more left than most folks think. That would be another reason for teams to be paying attention to him in the Olympics.

 

[dtgold88]

So how much does this yeas title get devalued due to injuries?

Have to say if anyone deserves some injury luck to work FOR him it's CP3. Making up for all the bad luck he's had in one postseason.

 

[tlance]

There are plenty of players who are almost exclusively offense and they seem to manage to help their teams.

A lot would depend on the team he went to and how good they are defensively. A good defensive team can "hide" him to lessen his negative impact.

Plus, we've seen so little of him over the past few years, it's hard to know just how much he has declined. He may have more left than most folks think. That would be another reason for teams to be paying attention to him in the Olympics.

It is harder to hide a 6’10 big who can’t protect the rim though. Can’t really put him in the middle of a zone and you have to be real selective about matchups and pick and roll schemes.

You are right in that we don’t know how much he has declined. He might still be a strong asset on the court.

But that is far from a sure thing.

 

[dtgold88]

That was me that noted that Jaylen Brown Marcus Smart and draft assets would be a better deal. But I’ve also read that they covet Beal. A PG move would be better. Think the Bucks move is a push because of Holiday’s age. Portland wouldn’t be in win now mode if they deal Dame. That also diminishes the value they may hold in a PG.

Good points, but not necessarily true. Maybe they feel like Dame/CJ just not the best fit together because of size a lack of D. sure, dealing CJ a better option for them but if they can get a lot more for Dame....................................?

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, I don't see the point of "devaluing" a title. Every season, no matter who wins, there's always something that can be pointed at as "lucky". Or something that can be pointed to that if it did (or didn't) happen, that team doesn't win.

Might be injuries to opponents, lack of injuries to the team that won, a lucky shot that did (or didn't) go in. Heck, even the Warriors getting KD can be seen as luck that Steph struggled with injuries early in his career. That delayed his first huge contract. As unlucky as it seemed at the time, without those injury struggles, they don't have the cap space for KD.

all that AND the cap explosion at just the right time.

 

[dtgold88]

There are plenty of players who are almost exclusively offense and they seem to manage to help their teams.

A lot would depend on the team he went to and how good they are defensively. A good defensive team can "hide" him to lessen his negative impact.

Plus, we've seen so little of him over the past few years, it's hard to know just how much he has declined. He may have more left than most folks think. That would be another reason for teams to be paying attention to him in the Olympics.

As a Cav fan just hoping the Olympic experience combined with adding a potential stud at 3 reinvigorates him...either to help his own team or to help move him in a deal.

No idea what to expect....guy was actually pretty solid in 2019 and played most of the season. Maybe he plays more last year if they needed to win games? I don't think so as his injury can be a bad one, but possible.

 

[trojanfan12]

It is harder to hide a 6’10 big who can’t protect the rim though. Can’t really put him in the middle of a zone and you have to be real selective about matchups and pick and roll schemes.

You are right in that we don’t know how much he has declined. He might still be a strong asset on the court.

But that is far from a sure thing.

Yeah, they'd have to have a rim protector out the with him. I think the Lakers, for example, could hide him because of AD. The Sixers probably could because of Embiid or maybe the Jazz because of Gobert. But yeah, there aren't a lot of teams that could hide him.

That's why I think it's good that he's going to be on the Olympic team. It'll be a chance to answer some questions.