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2021 NBA Offseason

tlance

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Yeah, they'd have to have a rim protector out the with him. I think the Lakers, for example, could hide him because of AD. The Sixers probably could because of Embiid or maybe the Jazz because of Gobert. But yeah, there aren't a lot of teams that could hide him.

That's why I think it's good that he's going to be on the Olympic team. It'll be a chance to answer some questions.

Right.

The 6ers problem would be that it would really tough to play Love and Tobias Harris together. The Embiid fit is good.

Especially if the other 2 guards are Sexton and Curry.

That could be a really bad defensive unit.

So what role would Love be able to play on that team?
 

dtgold88

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It is trade value. You have already proven you have no concept of it.

I didn’t say they were shopping him to get rid of him. They are shopping him because they are wary of paying him next summer with a roster that isn’t anywhere close to winning.

Sexton definitely has strong positive trade value. But not nearly as strong as it was because he is 1 year away from RFA.

Love has negative trade value.

Does Sexton have more positive value than Love has negative?

Yes, probably. But not by as much as you want him to.

And stop with your “baseless rumors” BS. Even Wiggy was talking about trading Sexton. Of course they are listening to offers.
Because I was off base on one guy who signed a deal 3 years ago means no concept of trade value? What you have proven is you have your own agenda and once your mind is made up that's that. You still think the team who has air to show for a deal won the deal.

FYI, I never said what I think we could even get for sexton, so once again your opinions are baseless. He is definitely a tough guy to evaluate worth.

They are baseless rumors. Most trade rumors do not go down as we are led to believe they will. "Even Wiggy" talking about it does not make me believe anything more than I might or less. I'm able to form my own opinions and it always has to do with the subject, not the poster of the subject.

No doubt no matter who the Cavs take if not Mobley is going to be somewhat redundant with one of their picks in the last 3 drafts. It's also possible they are gauging interest in Garland. If I'm them, unless the player being dealt is needed to move up in the draft or is an offer that just cannot be refused, I might be inclined to hold onto all the youngsters and see how the team shapes up with all the new pieces.
 

dtgold88

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Yeah, they'd have to have a rim protector out the with him. I think the Lakers, for example, could hide him because of AD. The Sixers probably could because of Embiid or maybe the Jazz because of Gobert. But yeah, there aren't a lot of teams that could hide him.

That's why I think it's good that he's going to be on the Olympic team. It'll be a chance to answer some questions.
Cavs can help him with Allen on floor with him and/or Nance.
 

dtgold88

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Right.

The 6ers problem would be that it would really tough to play Love and Tobias Harris together. The Embiid fit is good.

Especially if the other 2 guards are Sexton and Curry.

That could be a really bad defensive unit.

So what role would Love be able to play on that team?
That's my concern for them in a Sexton/Love for Simmons deal. Sexton/Simmons might be a better fit together than being dealt for each other.
 

msgkings322

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As a Cav fan just hoping the Olympic experience combined with adding a potential stud at 3 reinvigorates him...either to help his own team or to help move him in a deal.

No idea what to expect....guy was actually pretty solid in 2019 and played most of the season. Maybe he plays more last year if they needed to win games? I don't think so as his injury can be a bad one, but possible.
Help his own team do what? Win games? You guys are still in the "losses are good" phase aren't you?
 

dtgold88

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Interesting, time to shoot for the playoffs then?
Seems so. Some young, core pieces and finally get a draft pick inside where the top guys expected to go.

Might have themselves a Wiseman/Ball type decision to make if Mobley does not go #2.
 

Wamu

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There is a blast from the past. I always liked that guy.

I barely remember him. Didn't he play at Wake Forest?
 

tlance

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Because I was off base on one guy who signed a deal 3 years ago means no concept of trade value? What you have proven is you have your own agenda and once your mind is made up that's that. You still think the team who has air to show for a deal won the deal.

FYI, I never said what I think we could even get for sexton, so once again your opinions are baseless. He is definitely a tough guy to evaluate worth.

They are baseless rumors. Most trade rumors do not go down as we are led to believe they will. "Even Wiggy" talking about it does not make me believe anything more than I might or less. I'm able to form my own opinions and it always has to do with the subject, not the poster of the subject.

No doubt no matter who the Cavs take if not Mobley is going to be somewhat redundant with one of their picks in the last 3 drafts. It's also possible they are gauging interest in Garland. If I'm them, unless the player being dealt is needed to move up in the draft or is an offer that just cannot be refused, I might be inclined to hold onto all the youngsters and see how the team shapes up with all the new pieces.

All we are doing is speculating on where he might go if he is traded. Of course it is “baseless”.

That doesn’t mean, however that we can’t make a strong educated guess at what he might return.

You are right that Sexton is tough to value. Somebody might value a Sexton/Love pairing enough to pay for it, but I doubt it.

Obviously Sexton would be immensely valuable if he were making 8 mil or whatever for the next 2 years. But it is only 1.

So the acquiring team is also likely going to be committed to resigning him for big $ next year. And that absolutely factors heavy into the math on his value.

Because while a very good player, he isn’t the guy you rush to give a max extension to. He is more like a Kris Middleton/Tobias Harris who you pay to compliment your star.
 

fightinfunbags

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It is harder to hide a 6’10 big who can’t protect the rim though. Can’t really put him in the middle of a zone and you have to be real selective about matchups and pick and roll schemes.

You are right in that we don’t know how much he has declined. He might still be a strong asset on the court.

But that is far from a sure thing.
To your point, he would be a 4 with the Sixers mostly in his minutes with Embiid. He is likely to get taken off the dribble on a nightly basis by most NBA 4s. In order for a guy like that with issues on the defensive end to have value, he has to be giving you 17 and 10 a night. Those 10 boards will likely be a product of so many shots going up from his cover. My gut feel says the Sixers tried this before with a better player in Al Horford and it really was awful. I will note that Love is a better shooter than Horford so he would give better spacing for Embiid to work. But he gives that right back when you bring defense into the equation. Al is older but he is an experienced positional defender that can play team defense. I question Love’s ability to do that.
 

dtgold88

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All we are doing is speculating on where he might go if he is traded. Of course it is “baseless”.

That doesn’t mean, however that we can’t make a strong educated guess at what he might return.

You are right that Sexton is tough to value. Somebody might value a Sexton/Love pairing enough to pay for it, but I doubt it.

Obviously Sexton would be immensely valuable if he were making 8 mil or whatever for the next 2 years. But it is only 1.

So the acquiring team is also likely going to be committed to resigning him for big $ next year. And that absolutely factors heavy into the math on his value.

Because while a very good player, he isn’t the guy you rush to give a max extension to. He is more like a Kris Middleton/Tobias Harris who you pay to compliment your star.
agree with all of that (though still young enough to become better than Middleton or Harris).....but guys right below elite players are valuable, too. Ideally, NBA teams would only pay elite players max or near max deals., but we know that's not how it works. Kyrie was and is that type of player, too. IF a team had another big guard and stud SF they could use Sexton and could go far with him.
 

tlance

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To your point, he would be a 4 with the Sixers mostly in his minutes with Embiid. He is likely to get taken off the dribble on a nightly basis by most NBA 4s. In order for a guy like that with issues on the defensive end to have value, he has to be giving you 17 and 10 a night. Those 10 boards will likely be a product of so many shots going up from his cover. My gut feel says the Sixers tried this before with a better player in Al Horford and it really was awful. I will note that Love is a better shooter than Horford so he would give better spacing for Embiid to work. But he gives that right back when you bring defense into the equation. Al is older but he is an experienced positional defender that can play team defense. I question Love’s ability to do that.

And it moves Tobias to 3 which isn’t great either.
 

tlance

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agree with all of that (though still young enough to become better than Middleton or Harris).....but guys right below elite players are valuable, too. Ideally, NBA teams would only pay elite players max or near max deals., but we know that's not how it works. Kyrie was and is that type of player, too. IF a team had another big guard and stud SF they could use Sexton and could go far with him.

100% agree.

Definitely valuable players, also most likely to be overpaid.

Just how it goes.

Maybe he takes another step and surpasses that tier of player, but I would not bet on it.

We shall see which side of that bet the Cavs fall on.
 

fightinfunbags

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Good points, but not necessarily true. Maybe they feel like Dame/CJ just not the best fit together because of size a lack of D. sure, dealing CJ a better option for them but if they can get a lot more for Dame....................................?
Good point. I personally think that analysis on their end would be flawed. But who is to say that hoping doesn’t lead to a bad assessment. Maybe a CJ PG or CJ Holiday pairing would help get them over the hump into a true contender. But let’s also grant the idea that it would be rare for a team to shed their best player and then become a contender. The only circumstance I can think of was when OKC bailed on Westbrook. I think CP3 made them a better basketball team and that was without PG13 in their lineup. But they didn’t really rise to a “contender”. I’m still projecting that if Lillard forces out that the Blazers will be looking for a full reset and they’ll prioritize young pieces over 30 year old players. But again…just an opinion.
 

fightinfunbags

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And it moves Tobias to 3 which isn’t great either.
Damn. Another great point. Shit. Now let’s see if they still have to start Seth Curry. Love at 4 Harris at 3 Curry at 2. Damn. The offense can just pick their top 2 matchups among those three and run rough shod over the Sixers D. More plays for Embiid challenging which on the surface is good…until it tires him out for the offensive end or that fatigue increases the likelihood of injury for Captain Glass. If they have to take Love back to get talent for Simmons because his value really isn’t what they think then I hope Morey has a plan to send Love someplace for nearly anything. It’s addition by subtraction to make sure he’s not on the roster.
 

tlance

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Damn. Another great point. Shit. Now let’s see if they still have to start Seth Curry. Love at 4 Harris at 3 Curry at 2. Damn. The offense can just pick their top 2 matchups among those three and run rough shod over the Sixers D. More plays for Embiid challenging which on the surface is good…until it tires him out for the offensive end or that fatigue increases the likelihood of injury for Captain Glass. If they have to take Love back to get talent for Simmons because his value really isn’t what they think then I hope Morey has a plan to send Love someplace for nearly anything. It’s addition by subtraction to make sure he’s not on the roster.

I think it could be okay if Love came off the bench and played mostly with Embiid and/or Thybulle,

But that is a lot of offense first/offense only guys to be on the court at once.

And it would almost have to be a relatively minor role for Love in terms of minutes.
 

fightinfunbags

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I think it could be okay if Love came off the bench and played mostly with Embiid and/or Thybulle,

But that is a lot of offense first/offense only guys to be on the court at once.

And it would almost have to be a relatively minor role for Love in terms of minutes.
And there’s gonna be a defensive impact when a team parts with a guy like Simmons that can guard 1-5 and does so well enough to be 1st team All Defense. Teams that play top 5 statistical defense are generally the ones that win championships. Some exceptions to the rule but it’s better to play top defense than to not.
 
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