2021 NBA Offseason

[bksballer89]

Let's see Okoro this season but that's a miss if he ends up as a role player. Not looking for a role player if i draft you top 10 and he was selected top 5

 

[dtgold88]

Wiggy's Heat hating. Not difficult to see unless you're wearing blinders.

I mean, at least one other poster who is not Heat hater agreed with him.

 

[Shanemansj13]

They were 1 game from the ECF in year 2 post Lebron.

And as for your question, the answer is no but this is where scouting/draft selection come into play. Look what Miami been doing even with their draft picks. Selected Bam middle 1st round and he is an All Star and one of the best defensive players in basketball. Found Robinson as an undrafted free agent and he is one of the best shooters in the game. For a team that is often in the top 10, Cleveland miss too frequently on their picks. When you draft guys top 10 then i need you to need to be more than a role player. Sexton is the only one so far that looks that way. Hopefully Cleveland can keep him around

The last pick the Cavs missed on was Bennett. Wiggins was traded. They have drafted Garland, Sexton and Okoro (none top 3 but top 10). None are busts are this point. Garland is 21 and averaged 6 apg and shot close to 40% from 3. His numbers are comparable to Steph when he was the same age. So I’m not really sure what picks the Cavs have missed on other than Bennett, which most Cavs fans hated that pick at the time. That wasn’t Altman though.

 

[dtgold88]

Lets not be stupid. Why would i be talking about Mobley? His career didn't start yet so we dont know what he will be.

Garland is good but do you see him being a star? If i draft you top 5 then I'm expecting you to be a star. Okoro was drafted where? Top 10 i believe and looking like a role player. Also what about that shooter they drafted late 1st round a few years ago. Is he even in the rotation? Late 1st round picks don't have to be stars but should be rotation players imo

Here are the 4 top 10 picks this regime had made...
Sexton - Seems you like this pick
Garland - Most seem to think he'll be better than Sexton. Do I see him being a star? I could definitely see an all star appearance by him, sure. Even with hindsight there isn't someone I'd have taken instead.
Okoro - Might he just be a really good role player? sure, but there have been elite players who did less than he did as rookies. Some even older than 20 like Okoro
Mobley - way too early

would you like a top 5 pick to be a star? Of course, but not like they passed on one to take Garland or Okoro at this point, especially not one someone would have taken top 5.

The other player you are talking about is Wyndler. Injuries have put his career to a halt so far, but when he's been healthy he was, in fact, a rotation player (was as productive as Achiuwa). Might he be a bust? Sure. Is it possibly to find players mid-late 1st round (or later)? Of course, but vast majority of players taken in that area amount to little. Hell, in the earlier time you complained about they did find such a player (Joe Harris), but Griffin let him walk.

 

[dtgold88]

Let's see Okoro this season but that's a miss if he ends up as a role player. Not looking for a role player if i draft you top 10 and he was selected top 5

Who should they have taken instead who was worthy of going #5?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Let's see Okoro this season but that's a miss if he ends up as a role player. Not looking for a role player if i draft you top 10 and he was selected top 5

That’s a miss if he is a role player in his 2nd season at the age of 20? Lol the fact is some guys develop quicker than others. We won’t know for sure until season 4 or so. That’s why you can’t give up on young guys in most cases, especially top 10 picks. People don’t realize, even Sexton is just now entering his 4th season. This is one of the youngest teams in the NBA. If they were to do something in only now season 4 post-Lebron that would be something. Projection with a good drafting seems more around 5-6 years I would think.
GS made their 1st postseason in year 5 with Curry and he was a star, if the Cavs don’t have a star like Curry could take a little longer especially if Mobley, only a rookie is that guy.

 

[The Q]

Here are the 4 top 10 picks this regime had made...
Sexton - Seems you like this pick
Garland - Most seem to think he'll be better than Sexton. Do I see him being a star? I could definitely see an all star appearance by him, sure. Even with hindsight there isn't someone I'd have taken instead.
Okoro - Might he just be a really good role player? sure, but there have been elite players who did less than he did as rookies. Some even older than 20 like Okoro
Mobley - way too early

would you like a top 5 pick to be a star? Of course, but not like they passed on one to take Garland or Okoro at this point, especially not one someone would have taken top 5.

The other player you are talking about is Wyndler. Injuries have put his career to a halt so far, but when he's been healthy he was, in fact, a rotation player (was as productive as Achiuwa). Might he be a bust? Sure. Is it possibly to find players mid-late 1st round (or later)? Of course, but vast majority of players taken in that area amount to little. Hell, in the earlier time you complained about they did find such a player (Joe Harris), but Griffin let him walk.

fwiw neither garland or sexton has a positive vorp for their careers yet

so let’s pump the brakes on them a little bit.

 

[Shanemansj13]

fwiw neither garland or sexton has a positive vorp for their careers yet

so let’s pump the brakes on them a little bit.

Well I never liked advanced stats…Sexton has proved he can play at an AS level, that is a fact BUT can he be that player on a playoff caliber team? That is the question, those are totally different things. Garland and Okoro still so young, it wouldn’t be fair to them to judge them as being unimpressive. Garland has good numbers but the defensive metrics for Sexton and Garland are probably the clear weaknesses. I get it, two small guards isn’t ideal. This year there will be no excuses for either, if they can co-exist or make something work…that duo won’t last but I feel like Garland improved a ton from year 1 to year 2. We are talking about a kid that basically jumped from H.S. to the NBA. He played 4 games at Vandy, again not fair to him.

 

[The Q]

Well I never liked advanced stats…Sexton has proved he can play at an AS level, that is a fact BUT can he be that player on a playoff caliber team? That is the question, those are totally different things. Garland and Okoro still so young, it wouldn’t be fair to them to judge them as being unimpressive. Garland has good numbers but the defensive metrics for Sexton and Garland are probably the clear weaknesses. I get it, two small guards isn’t ideal. This year there will be no excuses for either, if they can co-exist or make something work…that duo won’t last but I feel like Garland improved a ton from year 1 to year 2. We are talking about a kid that basically jumped from H.S. to the NBA. He played 4 games at Vandy, again not fair to him.

I was an okoro fan.

if he learns to shoot he can be that star

But it’s a very large question mark.

but to put it into context, he 100% goes behind kuminga in this years draft

 

[dtgold88]

That’s a miss if he is a role player in his 2nd season at the age of 20? Lol the fact is some guys develop quicker than others. We won’t know for sure until season 4 or so. That’s why you can’t give up on young guys in most cases, especially top 10 picks. People don’t realize, even Sexton is just now entering his 4th season. This is one of the youngest teams in the NBA. If they were to do something in only now season 4 post-Lebron that would be something. Projection with a good drafting seems more around 5-6 years I would think.
GS made their 1st postseason in year 5 with Curry and he was a star, if the Cavs don’t have a star like Curry could take a little longer especially if Mobley, only a rookie is that guy.

LA made the playoffs in year 7 of their rebuild. Year 8 for NY and Year 6 for Philly (think they went 10-72 in year 4, the season the Cavs will next have). Bulls will be in year 5 next year without a playoff appearance. Suns took 11 years (to be fair they had a 48-34 season with no playoffs, but I think 7 years since that one. Booker was 19-63 in his 4th year.

It would be one thing if Cavs picked high enough to take Zion, Morant, RJ, Doncic or Ball and passed.....but they didn't.

 

[dtgold88]

fwiw neither garland or sexton has a positive vorp for their careers yet

so let’s pump the brakes on them a little bit.

pump the brakes on what? Both look like solid players for where they were taken. Never said either would be a star. Someone you'd have taken instead of Garland even with value of hindsight? Knowing we'd be pairing him with Garland for sure SGA a better choice than sexton but didn't know they'd get Garland when they took sexton and not like he's a bad player by any means.

FYI, 2 guys picked ahead of garland - Barrett and Hunter - also do not have positive VORPs yet

 

[The Q]

pump the brakes on what? Both look like solid players for where they were taken. Never said either would be a star. Someone you'd have taken instead of Garland even with value of hindsight? Knowing we'd be pairing him with Garland for sure SGA a better choice than sexton but didn't know they'd get Garland when they took sexton and not like he's a bad player by any means.

I had SGA over sexton.

I get okoro over Haliburton due to previous picks

that 2019 draft was brutal. Garland is fine. But it doesn’t mean it’s a future star. Hayes is probably the guy who has been better.

He and Hayes had the most upside at 5 so whatever.

I just don’t know if either sexton or garland is on the next cavs contender unless Mobley actually is brow and okoro pulls the kawhi and randomly learns how to shoot

 

[dtgold88]

I was an okoro fan.

if he learns to shoot he can be that star

But it’s a very large question mark.

but to put it into context, he 100% goes behind kuminga in this years draft

Might be true, but Kuminga was not available for them to take instead of him and possible he'd have gone 3-4 in Okoro's draft. So?

 

[Sparhawk]

 

[The Q]

Might be true, but Kuminga was not available for them to take instead of him and possible he'd have gone 3-4 in Okoro's draft. So?

more just to level set the type of prospect he is. He’s more of a normal top 10 pick than top 5

 

[Shanemansj13]

pump the brakes on what? Both look like solid players for where they were taken. Never said either would be a star. Someone you'd have taken instead of Garland even with value of hindsight? Knowing we'd be pairing him with Garland for sure SGA a better choice than sexton but didn't know they'd get Garland when they took sexton and not like he's a bad player by any means.

Yep, SGA would have been the better pairing.

2018 draft - Luka, trae, ayton all went before CLE. So other than that the two best players do far are SGA and Sexton. I wouldn’t call that anything close to a bust. No one has mentioned Sexton as a star and we all still have questions. But he has been solid in books. He just needs players around him. Could they still trade him? Sure, bc of the lack of size paired with Garland. But a solid pick at #8.

2019 draft - zion, morant, barrett top 3 other than that…Garland has been the best of the bunch SO FAR. Cam Johnson has been impressive as a role player but he was picked at #11

2020 draft - wiseman, edwards, ball all top 3. Nobody else has been impressive. Haliburton could be but the Cavs had 2 guards and he wasn’t in play. Okoro is one of those guys that could take time to develop, very young but if he can get a 3 ball and continue to be a hard worker on defense, he will be just fine.

The fact is if every pick became a star…well you couldn’t pay them all anyway and I guess you should go try the lottery with that luck. I’m not labeling anyone a future star or even AS on CLE but I will say I have the most confidence Mobley can be that guy with his skillset. We will see. I just don’t see how any of these guys in the past 3-4 drafts are bad picks based on the criteria and options at that pick.

 

[dtgold88]

I had SGA over sexton.

I get okoro over Haliburton due to previous picks

that 2019 draft was brutal. Garland is fine. But it doesn’t mean it’s a future star. Hayes is probably the guy who has been better.

He and Hayes had the most upside at 5 so whatever.

I just don’t know if either sexton or garland is on the next cavs contender unless Mobley actually is brow and okoro pulls the kawhi and randomly learns how to shoot

I can definitely see taking SGA over sexton but not like they passed on him to take Knox or Bamba. Hindsight, sure, I could see Haliburton going a lot higher but as you said previous picks kind of prevented that and not like he went top 10. I doubt anyone was taking Haliburton at 5 no matter what they needed. I'd say the suns and SA are probably the teams who screwed the pooch passing on him.

No doubt the cavs need someone better than both sexton and Garland to make any noise.....but I think this discussion is really just on the FO and how they did in these drafts. If they passed on Doncic, Morant, Trae, etc. to take these guys I could see someone complaining about them. But they didn't.

They finally got a pick this year where the top guys were expected to go so we'll see if they nailed it.

 

[bksballer89]

That’s a miss if he is a role player in his 2nd season at the age of 20? Lol the fact is some guys develop quicker than others. We won’t know for sure until season 4 or so. That’s why you can’t give up on young guys in most cases, especially top 10 picks. People don’t realize, even Sexton is just now entering his 4th season. This is one of the youngest teams in the NBA. If they were to do something in only now season 4 post-Lebron that would be something. Projection with a good drafting seems more around 5-6 years I would think.
GS made their 1st postseason in year 5 with Curry and he was a star, if the Cavs don’t have a star like Curry could take a little longer especially if Mobley, only a rookie is that guy.

If he is still a role player after year 3 then it is a miss. Guys are up for big extensions following year 3. You have 3 seasons to prove yourself. Otherwise you miss out on the big money

 

[dtgold88]

more just to level set the type of prospect he is. He’s more of a normal top 10 pick than top 5

No disagreement...but nothing our FO could do about that. Not sure anyone we could have taken should have been a "normal" top 5 pick.

 

[dtgold88]

If he is still a role player after year 3 then it is a miss. Guys are up for big extensions following year 3. You have 3 seasons to prove yourself. Otherwise you miss out on the big money

This guy a role player after year 3?

13.1ppg, 4.9rpg, 2.6apg, 39.7% FG overall, 28.3% from 3

In addition, unless you think there was a realistic guy they should have taken who is much better how is it a miss?