2021-2022 Mariners offseason/free agency thread

[ulmax]

The Kyle Lewis thing is very very strange. It’s not like he had surgery the day before the work stoppage so there is a timetable. It isn’t trying to keep his trade value high because teams have to have access to players medical charts or a physical before a trade can happen. It just seems there is a fracture there somewhere, whether it be Lewis not trusting them after his rehabs from past surgeries or Jerry and Co not trusting Lewis with his rehab.

With Story, if he is asking 6 at $21 million, I’d offer 3 years at $26-28 million with a player option or options for say $30-35 million. No idea if he and his agent would do it but IMO over spend to lower the years but also incentivize good production. 3B is a crossroads for Jerry where he either has to over spend on a FA or probably over pay with prospects for a 3B.

The Seattle Mariners will be without outfielder Kyle Lewis for the rest of the season because of a bone bruise in his right knee, according to Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times.

Lewis, the reigning and unanimous American League Rookie of the Year Award recipient, had been sidelined since May 31 because of a torn meniscus in the same knee. In 36 appearances this season, he'd hit .246/.333/.392 (106 OPS+) with five home runs and 21 more strikeouts than walks in 147 trips to the plate.

Last year, he hit .262/.364/.437 (124 OPS+) with 11 home runs in 242 plate appearances.
The 2020 American League Rookie of the Year was expected to be a major part of the Mariners in 2021. He looked good as Spring Training started. For the second time in his career, he received a bone bruise in his knee from running into a wall.

Kyle Lewis injury history​

Kyle Lewis has an interesting injury history for someone that hasn’t played much in the majors. Here’s a list of all the moderate-to-major things that have happened to him. The injuries he played through or tiny day-to-day stuff hasn’t been included.

November 5th, 2021 – Mariners activate Kyle Lewis from the 60-Day Injured List.

September 7th, 2021 – The Mariners shut down Lewis with a bone bruise to his right knee. The Mariners, originally hoping to have Lewis back for the stretch run, would instead shut him down for the season in hopes of having a fully healthy Lewis for the 2022 season.

June 18th, 2021 – Placed on the 60-Day Injured List.

June 9th, 2021 – knee surgery on torn right meniscus, tear revealed on June 1st.

June 1st, 2021 – Placed on the 10-Day Injured List.

April 20th, 2021 – Activated from Injured List, rejoins the Seattle Mariners.


March 22nd, 2021 – Spring Training – bone bruise right knee, missed 17 games. Would be placed on the official Injured List on March 31st.

July 21st, 2018 – Assigned to the Arkansas Travellers, the Mariners AA affiliate.

Early February 2018 – After rehabbing throughout the end of fall and beginning of winter, Jerry Dipoto let the world know that Kyle Lewis was actually going in for a knee scope and that he would be out 4-6 weeks while recovering.


Early October 2017 – He played the rest of the summer once he felt better after crashing into the wall. He would head to the Arizona Fall League. After experiencing a knee flare (unforeseen pain in the knee), he would be shut down in the AFL after just two games.

July 20th, 2017 – After being assigned to the AZL squad for a week, he would be reassigned to the Modesto squad again.

June 17th, 2017 – Just under a year from his ACL injury, Lewis was back in center field. Only six days after starting back up, he would bruise his knee after crashing into a wall and be out a couple of weeks. Unfortunately, this was a precursor for a later injury.

June 11th, 2017 – Assigned to Modesto Nuts, the Mariners A+ affiliate.

 

[ulmax]

Recovery and Rehabilitation
Recovery times after meniscus surgery can vary depending on the severity of the injury and the age and health of the patient. In general, recovery can range from 1.5-3 months. Patients will begin by using crutches to take stress and weight off the knee.
How long after meniscus surgery can I play sports?


Your doctor or physiotherapist will give you an idea of when you can return to these activities. If you had a partial meniscectomy, you might be able to play sports in about 4 to 6 weeks. If you had meniscus repair, it may be 3 to 6 months before you can play sports.

seems he had surgery...on june 1st..so going on 6 months right now....8 months by march.....

 

[ulmax]

so going into spring....im not sure of a full recover...but prob for sure..by 10- 12 months..either way...i dont think they will..
be thinking on tradeing for a CF..unless there was complications...and...
trammell..does not hit better than last year...trammell..can hit a lot of Hrs..so i would not want to trade him to soon...

if that is ..if...the mariners sign conforto....i ..could see tradeing fraley..LH guy..both of them

new for the mariners Tanner Kirwer 65 will prob be at AA...so even trading fraley..mariners prob do not want to..tell at least the deadline

but they still have haggerty...at tacoma...as well...

 

[ulmax]

they still have...A..rule 5 guy to get...if..and that is if again...scott kingery...utility..is still available....at 21 in rule 5..or someone could trade for him....
it is my guess...that ....that is the guy...the mariners...where ..inquireing about.....to..phili

one more LhP...would not hurt....like santiago...but..they may..not need that as well...

margavicius should be ready to go....

 

[ulmax]

5.Nick Margevicius
6.Justin Dunn 35
7.Matt Brash 47
8.Brandon Williamson 18

is prob your 8 starters...but a vet like santiago..would sure fit...bull..pen..and /or..starter

 

[seahawksfan234]

The Kyle Lewis thing is very very strange. It’s not like he had surgery the day before the work stoppage so there is a timetable. It isn’t trying to keep his trade value high because teams have to have access to players medical charts or a physical before a trade can happen. It just seems there is a fracture there somewhere, whether it be Lewis not trusting them after his rehabs from past surgeries or Jerry and Co not trusting Lewis with his rehab.

With Story, if he is asking 6 at $21 million, I’d offer 3 years at $26-28 million with a player option or options for say $30-35 million. No idea if he and his agent would do it but IMO over spend to lower the years but also incentivize good production. 3B is a crossroads for Jerry where he either has to over spend on a FA or probably over pay with prospects for a 3B.

Yeah I'm not really sure on the Kyle Lewis thing but perhaps you might be right regarding Lewis. I think he has had 2 or 3 knee related issues while he's been in the organization and as a high caliber athlete, perhaps he's frustrated and thinking that the medical staff is the problem as it's not common to have that many significant knee injuries. He may be dealing with it from the perspective that "it's not me, it's the medical staff," which I suppose would be the way many would cope with the situation. Who knows?

That's a fair counter offer with Story and I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to assume that MLB front offices have the same reservations that I do, which is why he hadn't signed before the stoppage. I think in the end, Story will probably settle for a deal similar to what you proposed.

I still think our best route to solving our 3B/LF problem is Kris Bryant. Doesn't cost us prospects and he can play 3rd, 1st and LF competently. Dipoto emphasized versatility and Bryant has that. Kris Bryant is the one guy I would overpay for in a second and I feel if we sign him and make a few other moves, the offseason would be a success.

 

[ulmax]

bohm...for phili...is like ..the glory..guy at 3B...and toro last year..was better than him...so im ok with that...and moore..they wont trade
him unless they have kingery..and..he is hitting well..
so there..is 3 of the same guys..
plus..story..and frazier..can 3b....im just...like....why fight it....go with it...and see what they can do...

toro..also..is a good 1b...for defence...he did not play there that much...but did not make any..mistakes...either..

 

[ulmax]

Yeah I'm not really sure on the Kyle Lewis thing but perhaps you might be right regarding Lewis. I think he has had 2 or 3 knee related issues while he's been in the organization and as a high caliber athlete, perhaps he's frustrated and thinking that the medical staff is the problem as it's not common to have that many significant knee injuries. He may be dealing with it from the perspective that "it's not me, it's the medical staff," which I suppose would be the way many would cope with the situation. Who knows?

That's a fair counter offer with Story and I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I have to assume that MLB front offices have the same reservations that I do, which is why he hadn't signed before the stoppage. I think in the end, Story will probably settle for a deal similar to what you proposed.

I still think our best route to solving our 3B/LF problem is Kris Bryant. Doesn't cost us prospects and he can play 3rd, 1st and LF competently. Dipoto emphasized versatility and Bryant has that. Kris Bryant is the one guy I would overpay for in a second and I feel if we sign him and make a few other moves, the offseason would be a success.

im all about doenig good in the draft...right now they had to give a draft pick for robbie ray...1 more..would still be ok..the mariners will dig deep again in the draft...and they did well last year...
it be better...if we new..the out come..of the new...collective bargain.....then i could say...ok..the mariners will get at least 0ne pick back
from a trade after...the new season begiens...but...i dont know...if that will be possible....with the new one...

i feel they should keep that part the way it is...and put who ever does not sign there guy..in 1,or 2 round..at the end..of the 1 or 2 round next year.....as a penilty...for not signing there guy......
but they will do what they want....
both sides will be lucky...to come out of it.....with there backside....unchanged....

niether side will git there cake...and eat it as well.............

i dont think there should be a change..in the draft...its good the way it is.....changing the system..will not change who..teams pick..
the same guys will be picked by the same teams...thay are barking....and it is dumb

 

[ulmax]

most team go into the draft...with a stratagy.....the players will not stop ..that...so..they need the players they need.and they will get them..
so if they want a guy..they could pick him one round earlyer...so..for the most part..they will end up with the same guys..

the first..3or4 rounds..is ussually..HS guys...then...collage guys after..with a few collage guys..in the begening..then only a few Hs guys after..round 4..
if they want to change it...have 2 diff drafts...HS..and collage....but
whatever......................................................................

they cut the draft from 40..to 20...they could leave it at that..cuz they cut it short...
then add like 5 to 7 rounds of HS..yeah...that would be good...

i will say..5 rounds...collages will suck up the rest..............

 

[ulmax]

takes 26 guys a team...it should be that..25..or 25 rounds however..they want...just not how the payers want..it..cuz it is dumb and dumber..

the players cant stop...stupidity....they have to live with it...just like the rest of us..........

 

[ulmax]

the players know a lot about how they get paid.....but about the the draft....they dont know didly sqwat

so even if they got what they wanted...they still ..wont get what they want......why...it does not work like that..... that is why...

 

[ulmax]

its not a 7 round draft...ijit

 

[ulmax]

pinging.(like a destroyer for a submarine)..trying to solve...problems...will only cause bigger problems.....best study...something..before you want to change it....

GO GET A CLUE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

 

[ulmax]

if you say..the mariners...will..have this line up.....illl take it..

1J.P. Crawford 3......L/L...SS
2Trevor Story..............2B...there is no one in free agents...that fits..like trevor story...so i think...if they dont get him...then they trade..at some point...for a ss/2b.....frazier...is a free agent..next year...unfortunatly...and ya like him to DH..and move around a bit...
3Adam Frazier 26....L/L...DH/2B/utility
4Mitch Haniger 17.........RF
5Ty France 23................1B
6Michael Conforto.........LF
7Kyle Lewis 1...................CF
8 Tom Murphy catch
9Abraham Toro 13.....3B

10Cal Raleigh 29.....catch
11Dylan Moore 25......it is not dylans...def..that is the prob...never know..he may get better...
12Jarred Kelenic 10/Jake Fraley 28/Taylor Trammell 20Julio Rodríguez 85...they could and prob will..use all of these guys..
sometime during the season...
13..im not sure...on this guy....which is ok...right now...........
in the event..of no trevor story...
a trade.......
CJ Abrams.of san diego..or vidal bruhan...of tampa...or..???..others have been sugested...mariners have a few pitchers they could trade...do they want to.....no...

 

[ulmax]

signing story..and conforto...would be huge....for the mariners...and i have already said on story...but

why conforto...
first off frazier...is a free agent next year...and depending on how he does...and how the tacoma outfield does...meaning who breaks out...and who does not..

conforto..is good has a good arm..in the out field..and he is a bit..like lewis...from the LHH..side..and would make a good DH.
in the event...that they did not re sign frazier....also..gives the mariners ..time to develop...the tacoma outfielders..

they need him................and trevor story............

free agents next year....do not look all that good...............
the above team i would bet....is a playoff team

 

[ulmax]

they would continue to work...on there bench( hitting)...tacoma outfielders...(hitting)
and develop minors pitching...only maybe...needing one more LH guy..
they have to try..Nick Margevicius 52....to see...if he can do it...he does pitch..like a 5th guy..so they need to find out...
Brandon Williamson 18...is the back up...to marg.....
and after that...
Justin Dunn 35...and
Matt Brash 47

 

[ulmax]

justus Sheffield 33
and
Anthony Misiewicz
as your..
bull pen LHPers.......looks good to me...

nestor Cortes 65...a LHP...the mariners used to have..had a break out for the yankees last year...and was nasty...at the end of the year..........do not be to hasty....

with the chef....he can cook............lol

 

[ulmax]

one more example.....every one thought he was challenged.....until...he was not....i always knew...he was not....lololol

Ryan Yarbrough​

Position: Pitcher
Bats: Right • Throws: Left
6-5, 205lb (196cm, 92kg)
Team: Tampa Bay Rays (majors)

 

[ulmax]

a misconception.....a lot of this going around...usually caused..from ..ignorance(lack of knowledge or information.) or education
mis·con·cep·tion
/ˌmiskənˈsepSH(ə)n/
1.a view or opinion that is incorrect because based on faulty thinking or understanding.

is that...players just...come up....and they are...awesome....and do not have to work..there buts off...
or are drafted...and...magicly...appear...in the magors......sorry folks....does not work that way...almost...never..

even players..get caught up...in the ignorance...of others...(We all do..to some degree)...just look around...
and you will see it...

pray...do not do this....look it up...be educated.....ulmax...over...and..out...

and for myself...most of all....good day...

 

[ulmax]

yes...on the above....we could be more...educated.....but we are not........if there is fault...let that be...on both sides...

By Chelsea Janes
December 21, 2021|Updated December 21, 2021 at 5:19 p.m. EST


Since Major League Baseball team owners locked out the players this month, MLB and the players’ union have met only once to discuss a new collective bargaining agreement, according to people familiar with the negotiations. Neither side seems to be feeling much urgency. Neither side seems to believe a deal is within immediate striking distance.

The issues on the table are numerous and varied — and the expectation among multiple people involved in the negotiations is that no substantive progress will be made in addressing them until the new year.
But to the extent that any one issue can be separated from the others, one of the widest gaps in these negotiations exists between the way the owners and players view the economics of the game.
Svrluga: Baseball’s lockout is about economics. What needs to be fixed is the sport.
Revenue increased in the years leading up to the pandemic, according to data from Forbes. But average player salaries decreased in that span, with no major jump to speak of since.

dont let them...fool you...its greed....pure and simple...on both sides....



Both sides agree, in theory, on the reason for this discrepancy: Less experienced players and veterans who are not stars are compensated in a way that allows teams to lean heavily on cheap, young labor. That tendency comes at the expense of veterans; players who wait years to reach free agency don’t always find a market eager to pay them.
Unsurprisingly — given Commissioner Rob Manfred is employed to represent the interests of the owners and union head Tony Clark is in place to champion the players — the owners and the players disagree on how to do that.

“When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports,” Manfred wrote when he announced the lockout. “Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals.”



The owners’ position in some ways begins and ends with a comparison to other sports. Among the union’s greatest accomplishments is its stiff-arming of a hard salary cap for years. No other sport gives its players the kind of megadeals available to MLB players. Manfred pointed to that spending because it implies a relative strength compared with other leagues, which don’t feature the same guaranteed deals that baseball stars regularly receive.
The union’s response, though, could be pulled straight from a Bernie Sanders campaign speech: Sure, the top 1 percent or so are receiving plenty of money, but salaries for the middle class are not growing commensurate with the at-times explosive growth of the sport’s revenue over the past few decades. A system that works for those at the top does not automatically or even usually work for those at the bottom.
According to an Associated Press report published Tuesday, payrolls — or the amount of money that teams committed to player salaries — in 2021 dropped 4 percent since 2019 to the lowest levels since 2015. Similarly, a study published earlier this year found the average major league salary fell in 2021, dropping about 5 percent from 2019, MLB’s previous full season. The AP reported that about 60 percent of the players on Opening Day rosters were making less than $1 million. Of that group, 35 percent made less than $600,000.



According to that report, about 50 of the 900 or so players on Opening Day rosters in 2021 accounted for about 33 percent of all the salary in baseball. And according to data pulled from contract database Spotrac, the richest players are seeing their salaries grow faster than the others: Since 2011, the average salary of the 30 highest-paid players has grown 4.4 percent, but salaries as a whole have increased less than 3 percent.
It’s unclear how much the coronavirus pandemic has cost team owners, but many have found new ways to generate income in recent years, whether through development of the areas around ballparks or with the installation of sportsbooks in stadiums. To the players, these additional revenue streams belie any suggestion that owners don’t have the money to pay players more — and many of their early proposals, according to people familiar with them, have focused more on concepts such as raising the competitive balance tax threshold that are focused on increasing spending in general rather than targeting it to any one particular group.
Svrluga: Max Scherzer, a Met? Man, that doesn’t feel right.
“There’s top-down economics and bottom-up and they both work in kind of tandem, and when you continue to move the market as a whole, everybody kind of moves up together,” said pitcher Max Scherzer, a member of the MLB Players Association’s executive subcommittee who recently signed a three-year deal with the New York Mets that will pay him a record $43.3 million annually. “When certain parts of the market don’t function, well, then it drags down the whole kind of player market.”

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According to people familiar with MLB’s proposals and approach, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the matter candidly, MLB’s negotiators are open to changing the way younger players are compensated but do not necessarily believe players need to receive a bigger share of the revenue pie to rectify those disparities. The union, meanwhile, wants to change the way players are compensated in large part by injecting a greater percentage of revenue back into player compensation — helping those at the bottom without costing those at the top.
In the broadest possible terms, the difference can be distilled to this: MLB argues that the owners are putting enough revenue into player compensation but that mechanisms need to be implemented to make sure more of it goes to younger players and those in baseball’s middle class. Manfred and the owners are largely proposing structural changes that address player concerns such as competitive balance but that do so by limiting spending at the top to fund more spending in the middle — taking the same financial pie but slicing it differently.
The players, meanwhile, believe owners need to spend more to facilitate fairer compensation for all, starting with paying younger players commensurate with their on-field value so veterans who produce at similar rates no longer seem so expensive. Instead of reslicing the existing pie, players want the owners to chip in more money and bake a bigger one that allows everyone’s slice — younger players, veterans and stars — to grow.
What to know about MLB’s lockout, offseason and CBA
As an example, team owners argue arbitration is clunky and full of unnecessary expenses such as lawyer fees; they have suggested replacing it with poorly received alternatives, including a performance-based formula. Players see arbitration as the first — and, because of the short length of the average major league career, often only — time they can use the free market to help determine their compensation, shedding MLB minimums and using their numbers to argue their value higher.

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As the Athletic reported, the union is also hoping to shorten players’ wait for arbitration from three years to two. The more money that young stars make over the major league minimum, the less a team saves by choosing a young player over a veteran with similar on-field production. One argument floated by those against the move is that moving arbitration up a year will lead to even more players on the margins being non-tendered (not given contracts and therefore getting released) before those deadlines, hurting the middle class that the players want to help. But that notion is hypothetical.
Meanwhile, MLB is offering another solution: In his letter addressing the lockout, Manfred said the owners proposed an age-based free agency system designed to eliminate teams’ ability to manipulate the service time of players.
The argument for age-based free agency looks like this: Sure, a few free agents at the top might make less because stars such as Carlos Correa or Juan Soto would have to wait to cash in. But service time manipulation — keeping major-league-ready players in the minors to avoid starting the six-year clock that begins when they make their major league debut and begin accumulating service time — would be less effective if free agency is tied to age. Plus, teams that struggle to pay young stars when they hit free agency would be able to control those players longer — thereby helping small-market teams compete while also helping the middle class make more money.

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