2020 Patriots News

[nefansince75]

My point is that if someone approaches you for a pick, then you really need to make every attempt to get more than the fictitious,irrelevant, made up number value of that pick.

FIFY

The point system is there for anyone not willing to do the work to establish their own value. Does that sound like BB? I find it puzzling that you work hard to establish BB does use his own grading system, then question why he makes a trade without using the other one.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

I've seen the actual white boards in Caserio's office . Before the draft they have all positions and the top 15 in each, 'in their estimation', not Mayock or anyone elses'. Then they move everyone into their final draft board from 1-250 and every time some one is picked, the name is removed. If a player that's at the top of their board does not qualify for the round that they are in, BB will attempt to move out, unless that player is listed in an earlier round.

Basically, if BB is selecting at 37 and his #15 is still available, then he'll take that guy. If he's picking at 37 and the best player is his #76, he'll attempt to move.

That's the way he's been forever. My point is that if someone approaches you for a pick, then you really need to make every attempt to get more than the number value of that pick. In my opinion, if the Chargers asked for the trade, then they should be required to pay a premium to get it and that would have been the third pick. If you look closely at these trades, those draft pick values are very closely followed by every team. If Belichick wanted to move out, then he did very well getting the picks he got.

And did you see their pick value chart? Did they tell you they use the same chart every year without revision?

How do you know they didn’t ask for more and Telesco said no?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Wish the whole clip of the trade going down had been posted on the Pats website.

I liked how Bill asked for someone to tell him he shouldn’t accept it though. Doesn’t really fit the “Bill’s driven by his ego and doesn't listen to anyone else” narrative now does it

 

[BigKen]

And did you see their pick value chart? Did they tell you they use the same chart every year without revision?

How do you know they didn’t ask for more and Telesco said no?

Shine, I made a point about what, in my opinion, seemed to be an across the board trade, value wise, according to posted draft pick values for 2020. In nearly every single trade of a first round pick, the team holding the pick is given a premium above what is the norm. In other words, you don't trade a first round pick for six third round picks because the value is numerically equal, you trade the pick because someone is willing to pay you more than the value. If you're out selling the pick because you don't want to use it, for whatever reason, then you trade it for as close to the numerical value as possible. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the value you or the other guy have on any player. It's what the value of the pick has according to whatever chart you're using. BB can't say that his #23 is worth 200 points more on his chart than on the chart that John Lynch is using. They all have to use the same values when making a trade. They all agree to use those values or else there is no basis for making a trade because the #175 is equal to the #75 without an agreed upon base chart.

I understand that BB is infallible to you, but I do think he took less than he should have gotten IF the Chargers approached him. IF he approached the Chargers, he did extremely well. Again, it depends on who actually approached who.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Where did the other trades last night rank on the chart you’re using?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

I fail to see where who picked up the phone first makes a lick of difference in the trade both sides agreed to. It’s either a good result or it’s not. You seem to be the only person who thinks it wasn’t, based solely on the fact the Chargers initiated the call and an assumption about how the negotiation went from there.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Where did the other trades last night rank on the chart you’re using?

Actually is the chart you’re using online and will you provide a link?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Ok so looking at your numbers looks like you used the original Jimmy Johnson chart. Based on that chart, the Pats did great in comparison to the two trades made after them (49ers only gave 681 points for #25 720 points and the Packers only gave 658 points for #26 700 points). The Bucs gave 9 points in value to move up one spot with the 49ers.

So still trying to figure out where the surplus value BB supposedly missed out on was supposed to have come from.

 

[nefansince75]

Actually is the chart you’re using online and will you provide a link?

The chart really isn't relevant. BB simply saw the value he wanted was still there at 37 so he made the trade for some extra value. If he thought there was more value to be gotten he would have gotten it.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Like these guys are on a clock and don't have a bunch of time to dicker...do you really think Telesco didn't have a pretty good idea what he was willing to pay for the pick when he picked up the phone, and probably wasn't going to be budging too far if at all from that?

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

The chart really isn't relevant. BB simply saw the value he wanted was still there at 37 so he made the trade for some extra value. If he thought there was more value to be gotten he would have gotten it.

No haven't you heard, unless Bill bends the other team over based on the chart - presuming only that the other team called him first, of course - it's a bad trade.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Shine, I made a point about what, in my opinion, seemed to be an across the board trade, value wise, according to posted draft pick values for 2020. In nearly every single trade of a first round pick, the team holding the pick is given a premium above what is the norm. In other words, you don't trade a first round pick for six third round picks because the value is numerically equal, you trade the pick because someone is willing to pay you more than the value. If you're out selling the pick because you don't want to use it, for whatever reason, then you trade it for as close to the numerical value as possible. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the value you or the other guy have on any player. It's what the value of the pick has according to whatever chart you're using. BB can't say that his #23 is worth 200 points more on his chart than on the chart that John Lynch is using. They all have to use the same values when making a trade. They all agree to use those values or else there is no basis for making a trade because the #175 is equal to the #75 without an agreed upon base chart.

I understand that BB is infallible to you, but I do think he took less than he should have gotten IF the Chargers approached him. IF he approached the Chargers, he did extremely well. Again, it depends on who actually approached who.

It depends on what your teams needs are and how you value who's left on your board.
If you need a QB and there is 3 1st round talent QB's any particular year, but they are gone when your pick comes up, why not take the 6 3rd round picks? If your team is the oldest most injury prone? Why not? Maybe to YOUR value it is a win.

Maybe not. Maybe you try to fleece them and then lose a potential future trading partner.
Maybe Bill took one in the shorts this time around because he knows he will have a trading partner in the future if he needs to jump a few spaces.

 

[nefansince75]

No haven't you heard, unless Bill bends the other team over based on the chart - presuming only that the other team called him first, of course - it's a bad trade.

Which completely (your sarcasm translated out) aligns with my comment about not alienating ALL trade partners by not trying to plunder and pillage on every deal. The best deals have two winners.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Maybe Bill took one in the shorts this time around because he knows he will have a trading partner in the future if he needs to jump a few spaces.

Except by his own measure not only did he not take one in the shorts, he actually came out ahead. Way ahead compared to the teams that moved down two and three spots later. But he wants to flip it from ahead to behind because he thinks they should’ve come out even more ahead because LAC called them first.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

What if he just takes the same player he would’ve taken at 23 like he’s done before ( e.g., DMac, Light, Collins)? Is it a win then? Does he get credit for understanding the value of the board then?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Except by his own measure not only did he not take one in the shorts, he actually came out ahead. Way ahead compared to the teams that moved down two and three spots later. But he wants to flip it from ahead to behind because he thinks they should’ve come out even more ahead because LAC called them first.

Just throwing out a hypothetical justification...

I would assume both teams decision makers got what they wanted no matter what the fans hypothesize.
Maybe one team feels great while the other feels just ok, maybe one team feels they dodged a bullet.
They all have reasons and justifications that we may learn or know, they may be long term goals that are met years down the road.

 

[nefansince75]

Just throwing out a hypothetical justification...

I would assume both teams decision makers got what they wanted no matter what the fans hypothesize.
Maybe one team feels great while the other feels just ok, maybe one team feels they dodged a bullet.
They all have reasons and justifications that we may learn or know, they may be long term goals that are met years down the road.

That's what separates BB, he doesn't waste time on wallowing in woulda or coulda and instead focuses on the next move regardless of the last. After a SB win he blows the foam off the champagne, then on to free agency and the draft. Lost to the eagles? he got to free agency and the draft five minutes early. Bad draft? find UDFs. Good draft? find UDFs...

Of all his words of wisdom, the ones we remember most "ON TO...." (I know everyone filled in the blank with the correct answer).

 

[Southieinnc]

I agree. Naturally expectations are lower with all the losses. But we haven't even had the draft nor have we seen whether BB is the mad genius or not?

I'm feverishly anticipating the start to the season unlike years past.

pun, I hope.....

 

[NWPATSFAN]

pun, I hope.....

Yes and thanks for your concern.

Stay healthy my friend

 

[Shoeshine Boy]